Beyonce

[StrawberryBlond 14,195]

Truth is: No one has the right to tell someone they aren't something just because your values are different to theirs. Beyoncé can be whatever she wants to be, and you can to. At the end of the day she's still making hundreds of young girls/women [hell, even boys and grown men] around the nation feel good about themselves and if that works, she's serving her purpose as this "inspirational" person she wants to be. I'm an 18 year old guy and I find her as one of the biggest inspirations. I'm Black living in the United States and seeing someone who looks similar to me rise to power and be such a great person with huge talents... It's inspiring. She's come from similar situations as I, and I can relate. I want to change young kid's minds to tell them that they can do whatever they want to do. She's both a self-proclaimed feminist and inspiration to anyone who looks up to her. No one can change this. If she woke up one day and said "I'm beautiful," are you actually gonna try to refute that? 

 

 

But as a human you have every right to express your opinion. I just think Beyoncé has built an empire in both her career and personal life. She's fulfilled many goals in her life, she's pretty much a legend. She's married and in love with a beautiful baby girl. Now I get the impression that she feels free and anything in life is at a hands reach. She's made it. One could only hope to achieve this amount. That's why she's idolized by so many. She carries herself in such a way. But you're entitled to feel that way, no sweat.

 

I personally find her a very humble woman with a non-pretentious attitude. If I ever got that impression from a woman, I'd think she's in charge of what she does and rightfully so, she has every right to be in charge if she's the show-runner. I guess you just have to be in a similar situation growing up or relate to Beyoncé entirely in order to get it. But questioning someone's want to be an inspiration or Feminist is just wrong. Let her be what she wants to be.

 

My issue is that Beyonce's interpretation of feminism is what's partly to blame for feminists getting a bad rap. Bragging about your wealth and status as a woman isn't helping women to be equal, it's making women appear materialistic and stuck up. Just like when men do it. Why is it that when a man flashes his wealth, he gets called a jerk, but when a woman does it, she's being feminist? Why are women trying to copy the negative traits that are traditionally associated with men? And why is the female version being praised? I find a lot of the feminism that Beyonce embodies to be faux feminism, the kind any girl picks up without studying or developing an independent opinion. My feminist views changed and developed as I got older and are still developing and I notice that women who have had a rigid idea of feminism all their life tend not to have studied it or are even aware of what feminism is truly about. I'm not saying that my beliefs are correct, all I'm saying is that so many women now are reluctant to consider new ways of looking at feminism and they could benefit from listening to different views.

 

I have no problem with Beyonce thinking she's beautiful, but it's not always wise to proclaim it in such a vain way. She may say a song like Flawless is meant to inspire confidence in women, but it'll only inspire confidence in women who are already confident. There are some females who simply cannot see their beauty, no matter how much people tell them so. There are females who look plain and know that they're plain. There are females who can only feel confident when they're covered in make up. So, how would women like this suddenly feel confident about themselves when hearing a song with lines like "I wake up flawless" and "I woke up like this"? Your perception and happiness of your looks can't be changed through a song. There has to be something there to work with beforehand. And as I've witnessed with a lot of Beyonce fans, they're already confident people, so Beyonce's songs just extend their belief in themselves and they can relate to them well. If you've never felt flawless in your life, this song isn't going to magically inspire that feeling. And I also think that the song isn't for an ordinary member of the public: it's just Beyonce singing about herself but trying to dress it up like it's really about all women.

 

Yeah that's to her competitors and detractors, not her fans. "I know when you were little you idolised me and wanted to be in my world, so respect that. Hate on me all you want but you once dreamt of being me. Respect that I have been in this game for so long, respect that I am #1, bow down b---hes."

It's like the bravado/swag of artists like Kanye who constantly sprout lyrics such as "Matter fact, i'm on this very second I'm in first and y'all in second." or "So how the hell could you front on me? There's a thousand you's there's only one of me." or Eminem rapping "Had a dream I was king, woke up still king." This is the sort of bravado that you hear all the time in hip-hop. The only difference is that you are used to men saying they are the best, you are not used to that sort of bravado from a girl.

So yeah, Beyonce calls herself a king. Kanye calls himself a God, Eminem calls himself a king and a rap God, Rick Ross calls himself the boss,  Meek Mill calls himself a boss and a king, Jay Z likens himself to MJ and calls himself "Jay-Hova", Kendrick Lamar crowns himself as king etc.

You come across as someone who isn't very familiar with hip-hop culture, branding yourself as a king or as the best isn't shocking from within the hip-hop community. Like Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie mentions in the song though "We teach girls to shrink themselves, to make themselves smaller. We say to girls: "You can have ambition, but not too much, you should aim to be successful, but not too successful. Otherwise, you will threaten the man"". Maybe the shock is due to the fact it is actually a female bigging herself up.

Well you will probably be more insulted when I say you don't seem to know anything at all about the past work of Beyonce or about the hip-hop genre in general, so it doesn't appear like you have done too much research.

I have never told you to shut up, nobody did, so get off your high horse. I don't care what you think about Beyonce or "my precious" ( ) Lorde. You can express whatever feelings you have, just be prepared to be called out on your BS when what you write is complete BS. Because people can have other opinions and can actually disagree with what you say! You are not the only person who is allowed to criticise and express an opinion.

Sorry for "keeping tabs on you" I just noticed that in every Beyonce thread I would enter you would post a page of complete crap you made up in, what appeared to be, an attempt to get your dislike of Beyonce validated by others.

 

 

Once again, why would her haters want to be her? You idolise your heroes, not your pet hates, even if they live the same lives. But either way, the message is still repungant. Demanding people bow down to you and calling them b*****s is indefensible.

 

I am well aware that males bigging themselves up in the hip hop industry is standard fare and I know women have been doing it as well. But I don't agree with either gender doing it unless it's absolutely undisputed. These titles in the industry become meaningless when everyone claims they're at the top and it also equates success with being the best which is nonsense. But the biggest issue is that in most cases, these artists are nowhere near the level they think they are. I can see why Kanye, Jay and Eminem think they're they best and I think they could all be considered the king in their own ways. But those with less popularity like Rick Ross and Big Sean need a reality check. Then there's women like Nicki who proclaims herself king and the best ever on her debut album which is absolutely laughable. The only queen of rap of Lil Kim - Missy is the only one who even comes close. And in Beyonce's case, there's no way she's #1 in her respective genres. The queen of RnB is usually considered to be Mary J, with Mariah vying for the title and Areatha and Etta are considered the queens of soul. Beyonce has tried to be more pop before, but love her or hate her, Madonna's still the queen and she's not shifting, though Britney and Gaga are putting up good fights. So, how exactly is Beyonce #1? At a push, she was #1 at the time years ago. But at the moment, Rihanna's pretty much #1.

 

I have been listening to urban music for years. I've reviewed lots of urban albums this year. I rank albums by Lil Kim, Eminem, Trina, Kanye, etc. as some of my most favourite urban albums as well as some of my favourites in general. I have listened to all of Beyonce's albums, including her latest one (she still hasn't topped her debut, imo), so I do know all about her music. I've also researched all her song stealing that she tried to sweep under the rug.

 

You told me to "calm down and stop being pressed" which sounds like another way of saying shut up. I find it tends to be people who use this line that need to step off their high horse. Using the word "pressed" is not going to get you on my good side. A lot of people round here try to use this word to end an argument unfairly on their side and I don't stand for it. And my opinions are just that - you cannot label an opinion as BS. I find it funny how you think I should be called out and I'm not allowed to call you out.

 

And yes, I do use opportunities to spout the truth about Beyonce because I want to alert people to all the shady stuff she does that they may be unaware of. I do this with anyone who I know is a snake in the grass or a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's not my problem if some people want to pretend these issues don't exist. Beyonce tried to be nice once but she's showing her true colours these days with songs like Bow Down. I don't know why people still like her as a person, to be honest.

[MegaMiles 0]

The lyrics do kind of water it down but its still a good song with a great message. ***Flawless is flawless :gaga:

[Bebe 16,930]

Once again, why would her haters want to be her? You idolise your heroes, not your pet hates, even if they live the same lives. But either way, the message is still repungant. Demanding people bow down to you and calling them b*****s is indefensible.

 

I am well aware that males bigging themselves up in the hip hop industry is standard fare and I know women have been doing it as well. But I don't agree with either gender doing it unless it's absolutely undisputed. These titles in the industry become meaningless when everyone claims they're at the top and it also equates success with being the best which is nonsense. But the biggest issue is that in most cases, these artists are nowhere near the level they think they are. I can see why Kanye, Jay and Eminem think they're they best and I think they could all be considered the king in their own ways. But those with less popularity like Rick Ross and Big Sean need a reality check. Then there's women like Nicki who proclaims herself king and the best ever on her debut album which is absolutely laughable. The only queen of rap of Lil Kim - Missy is the only one who even comes close. And in Beyonce's case, there's no way she's #1 in her respective genres. The queen of RnB is usually considered to be Mary J, with Mariah vying for the title and Areatha and Etta are considered the queens of soul. Beyonce has tried to be more pop before, but love her or hate her, Madonna's still the queen and she's not shifting, though Britney and Gaga are putting up good fights. So, how exactly is Beyonce #1? At a push, she was #1 at the time years ago. But at the moment, Rihanna's pretty much #1.

 

I have been listening to urban music for years. I've reviewed lots of urban albums this year. I rank albums by Lil Kim, Eminem, Trina, Kanye, etc. as some of my most favourite urban albums as well as some of my favourites in general. I have listened to all of Beyonce's albums, including her latest one (she still hasn't topped her debut, imo), so I do know all about her music. I've also researched all her song stealing that she tried to sweep under the rug.

 

You told me to "calm down and stop being pressed" which sounds like another way of saying shut up. I find it tends to be people who use this line that need to step off their high horse. Using the word "pressed" is not going to get you on my good side. A lot of people round here try to use this word to end an argument unfairly on their side and I don't stand for it. And my opinions are just that - you cannot label an opinion as BS. I find it funny how you think I should be called out and I'm not allowed to call you out.

 

And yes, I do use opportunities to spout the truth about Beyonce because I want to alert people to all the shady stuff she does that they may be unaware of. I do this with anyone who I know is a snake in the grass or a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's not my problem if some people want to pretend these issues don't exist. Beyonce tried to be nice once but she's showing her true colours these days with songs like Bow Down. I don't know why people still like her as a person, to be honest.

"Once again, why would her haters want to be her?"

You hate me because you aint me. But again, when all these competitors and critics were young they dreamt of being like Beyonce, they can hate or act like that isn't a big deal now but they should really respect her and bow down. The whole song is about addressing her haters and competitors.

"Imagine the person that hates you, imagine the person that doesn’t believe in you and look in the mirror and say ‘bow down, b---h’!†- Beyonce on "Bow Down"

Ignoring the fact that you seem to be ok with multiple men calling themselves kings or Gods (Kanye, Jay and Eminem) while making successful women battle it out among each other by allowing only one woman to be on top, what gives you the right to criticise hip-hop culture? I think a lot of your "feminist" objections to this song actually come from a lack of understanding and/or acceptance of a culture that you are not a part of and that you are not familiar with. Idgaf how many hip-hop albums you have listened too, it is clear that you don't understand the roots of hip-hop and the culture that surrounds it.

Hip-hop has its origins in the 1970s. It originated in African-American communities in New York. "Braggadicio" became a large part of hip-hop and it appealed to the communities who felt oppressed. Like "Zoot-Suiting" from the 1940's and 1950's and like how African-Americans started calling themselves "man" instead of "boy" as their white oppressors had called them, Hip-hop and Braggadicio became a way for these young African Americans to defy their oppressors through the way they dressed, carried themselves and through how they spoke and rhymed. Braggadicio is ingrained as a part of hip-hop culture, it's why Kendrick Lamar can come into the game for two seconds and name himself the King of New York. It isn't necessarily a reflection of their narcissism it is an expression of confidence and it is a way many African Americans gave themselves a sense of self worth. If you truly do like hip-hop music, at least have a little appreciation for its origins.

There are many young African American girls looking up to Beyonce as a source of strength. There are not many black women who are depicted in the way Beyonce is. They get what Beyonce is doing, they get this song and it is an empowering song for them. What gives feminism a bad name is that it constantly ignores cultural/socio-political differences and fails to fully encompass women of colour and women from minorities. Feminism for many seems to be working towards reducing oppression for white women only. This is why the 'womanist' movement is becoming more popular.

How about you actually read what black feminist writers from "Gradient Lair", "Racialicious" and "Crunk Feminist Collective" think about Beyonce and her song?

http://www.gradientlair.com/post/50751492514/white-feminist-critique-beyonce-ad-perpetuum-ugh

http://www.racialicious.com/2013/12/17/quoted-on-beyonce-and-feminism/

http://www.crunkfeministcollective.com/2013/12/13/5-reasons-im-here-for-beyonce-the-feminist/

I said earlier that I was just going to ignore this part but the hypocrisy of it all is astounding. 

 

"I can see why Kanye, Jay and Eminem think they're they best and I think they could all be considered the king in their own ways."

I'll just post a few of my favourite lyrics of theirs in some spoilers.

Kanye (who refers to himself as Yeezus and has claimed he is a God.)

 

One last announcement/No sports bra, let's keep it bouncing/Everybody wanna live at the top of the mountain/Took her to the 'Bleau, she tried to sip the fountain/That when David Grutman kicked her out/But I got her back in and put my dick in her mouth - On Sight

When I grab your neck, I touch your soul/Take off your cool then lose control. - Say You WIll

These other niggas is lyin, actin’ like the summer ain’t mine/I got that hot b---h in my home/You know how many hot b---hes I own? - Niggas in Paris

Get you a cute chick, face got potential/Working with her little hips, waist like a pencil/Know how niggas play you, but you know how 'Ye do. - Throw some D's

I paid for them titties, get your own/It ain't safe in the city, watch the throne - That's my b---h

But I know that God put you in front of me/ So how the hell could you front on me?/There's a thousand yous, there's only one of me - Stronger

 

 

Jay Z (who refers to himself as Jay-Hova and has called himself a king)

 

(Bitch) Sisters get respect, b---hes get what they deserve/SIsters work hard, b---hes work your nerves/Sisters hold you down, b---hes hold you up/Sisters help you progress, b---hes will slow you up/Sisters cook up a meal, play their role with the kids/Bitches in street with their nose in your biz/Sisters tell the truth, b---hes tell lies/Sisters drive cars, b---hes wanna ride - Bitches and Sisters

Many chicks wanna put Jigga fist in cuffs/Divorce him and split his bucks/Just because you got good head, I'ma break bread/so you can be livin it up? -Big Pimpin'

 

If you're having girl problems I feel bad for you, son/I've got 99 problems but a b---h ain't one - 99 problems

 

Eminem (Who has referred to himself as a king numerous times and has recently said he is a rap God)

 

 

Slut, you think I won't choke no *****/Til the vocal cords don't work in her throat no more - Kill You

Hey Slim, that's my girlfriend screamin' in the trunk/But I didn't slit her throat, I just tied her up, see I ain't like you/Cause if she suffocates she'll suffer more and then she'll die too - Stan (also referencing his song 97 Bonnie and Clyde where he murders his wife and dumps her body in the river)

Hi there girl, you mighta/Heard of me before, see *****, you're the kind of girl that I'd assault/And rape then figure why not try not to make your *** wider?/**** you with an umbrella, then open it up while the ****'s inside ya - Stay Wide Awake

 

See me I'm all up on your b---h means I'mma rape her/All I got for these hoes is dick, duct tape and a stapler/So b---h, you better look for table scraps to scrape up - Celebrity (Remix)

 

 

All of those guys are great but HOW DARE a woman who was part of one of the most successful girl bands of all time, who has 17 Grammy awards, who has appeared in multiple successful movies, has 5 #1 albums, who has sold 13 million albums in the US and over 118 million records worldwide, who was the top certified artist of the 2000s with a total of 64 certifications and who has influenced artists such as Rihanna, Nicki Minaj, Leona Lewis, Nicole Scherzinger, Rita Ora, Jessie J among countless others name herself as a KING and tell BITCHES to bow down. IT JUST REEKS OF NARCISSISM AND MISOGYNY!

You see my point? Not only do your criticisms seem so shallow and ignorant they also seem very hypocritical. Why are you so goddamn harsh on strong, successful women while so willing to let these men call themselves what they want and say what they want?

You are not only judging and dictating the actions of Beyonce from a separate cultural perspective, you are also harshly enforcing these stringent moral codes on black women and not on men.

 

Multiple successful men can call themselves kings and Gods according to you, but Beyonce and Nicki cannot because there are other females out there that are "better" than them. Only Lil Kim can be the Queen of Rap and only Mary J can be the Queen of RnB (with Mariah vying for the title), Madonna's still the queen (Although Gaga and Britney might be able to become queen one day).

 

Let's not pretend that you are worried Beyonce isn't promoting equality by telling females to bow down because you are helping to force them down by turning women against each other and by promoting the notion that there can be limited successful women. Stop bringing women down.

I think it is disappointing that a female who identifies as a feminist releases an album that, challenges confining beauty standards in the opening track, that helps associate feminine traits with strength and power, that features other powerful women in her life such as Tina, Kelly, Michelle and Solange by her side and that features Chimanada Ngozi Adiche is torn apart by people eager to tear her down and somehow invalidate her feminism in any way they can. It's pretty common for women of colour to face such intense criticism though. As popular blog Feministing once said "[beyoncé] is not allowed to be groundbreaking and traditional. She has to be Supermom or super hot stuff or super feminist. There isn't enough flexibility for her to just be who she is and for us to be able to say 'I'm not crazy about that decision, but this decision was amazing.'"

 

It goes beyond criticism, as Gradient Lair said in the link I posted above "the perpetual critique of Beyoncé is no longer productive critique. (I am not sure that it ever was.) This critique is creating arbitrary standards that Black feminists have to meet that White feminists do not."

 

"You told me to "calm down and stop being pressed" which sounds like another way of saying shut up."

No, it is me telling you that you are coming across as angry and pressed.

 

"And my opinions are just that - you cannot label an opinion as BS. I find it funny how you think I should be called out and I'm not allowed to call you out."

I would like you to find me a quote where I have even remotely implied that my words are infallible and that I am not subject to criticism. This seems like a case of projection. Once again you may criticise me, beyonce, lorde or whomever you want, stop getting so defensive when people call you out on your BS.

On the case of how you think your "opinions" cannot be BS though:

"And yes, I do use opportunities to spout the truth about Beyonce because I want to alert people to all the shady stuff she does that they may be unaware of."

 

Really? sprouting the truth about Beyonce? You are presenting your opinions as facts. If opinions can be true they can also be wrong, or BS. This is what I meant by the projection though. You have an attitude of "Everything I say is factual, nobody may criticise what I say" and then you start going off about how others are not exempt from criticism and that others opinions are just their opinions.

"It's not my problem if some people want to pretend these issues don't exist."

 

Once again, you seem to imply that what you are stating is fact when it is really just your opinion. Everything you write is opinion based, you provide no facts, and then you frame your writing as if it is a factual piece

[RAMROD 104,862]

Also, if you watch her autobio, she had shows she have always been a feminist.

[MegaMiles 0]

So many people are pressed because she used a "gimmick" to sell 600K+ without a single. She's laughing all the way to the bank. Didn't even need to lift a finger and she outsold the other big pop releases in a single day.

I agree how some complain this is an impulse buy, but the music industry is an INDUSTRY. Designed to sell music. Its tiresome seeing people try to bring down the accomplishment due to a "gimmick." In my opinion, its smart business.

The music is great nonetheless and the way it was presented, the album didn't succumb to over hype so people weren't tired or seeking too much from the album.

[FFXSoul91 1,092]

Can we get a favorite album poll?

[100percent 10]

sure..it should break

because it is iTunes EXCLUSIVE and NO leak

[MahoganySnitch 67]

So many people are pressed because she used a "gimmick" to sell 600K+ without a single. She's laughing all the way to the bank. Didn't even need to lift a finger and she outsold the other big pop releases in a single day.

I agree how some complain this is an impulse buy, but the music industry is an INDUSTRY. Designed to sell music. Its tiresome seeing people try to bring down the accomplishment due to a "gimmick." In my opinion, its smart business.

The music is great nonetheless and the way it was presented, the album didn't succumb to over hype so people weren't tired or seeking too much from the album.

all of this!

[100percent 10]

Actually i think her marketing plan is perfect

I am so happy for her :)

to avoid leak and make it exclusive are ****ing smart move

[ELECTRAHEARTPOP 93]

Does the electric guitar in Rocket (when she sings 'climb until you reach my peak babe') remind anyone of High School Musical 2?

Please tell me I'm not crazy.

Can we get a favorite album poll?

But we'd all be voting BEYONCÉ so.

:coffee:

[ThisGuyTony 29,337]

What kind of slayage?
 

[FFXSoul91 1,092]

But we'd all be voting BEYONCÉ so.

Probably true. I still have a soft spot for Sasha Fierce though.

[Bat 6,162]

Make a poll of best single or favorite song or whatever.

[Swim Deep 0]

I know HMV in the UK are getting BEYONCÉ friday

[Mills 446]

Added a new poll!  :)

 

My favorite album of her so far is still "I Am... Sasha Fierce", followed by her debut studio album. Anyway, here's how I'd rank her studio albums:

 

1. I Am... Sasha Fierce

2. Dangerously in Love

3. B'Day

4. 4

5. BEYONCÉ