New York City buses must show 'killing Jews' ad, judge rules

[Melech 9,900]

"A judge has ruled that New York City's buses must display a controversial ad that refers to Muslims killing Jews.

 

New York's Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) had opposed the advertisement, arguing it could incite terrorism and violence. 

But Judge John Koeltl rejected the argument and said the ad was protected under the US constitution, which enshrines the principle of free speech. 

The ad is paid for the American Freedom Defense Initiative.

It has already been displayed on public transport in Chicago and San Francisco. 

The advert shows a threatening-looking man with his head and face wrapped in a scarf, next to a quotation attributed to a music video from the militant Palestinian group Hamas. 

The quote says: "Killing Jews is worship that draws us close to Allah."

The advert asks: "That's his Jihad. What's yours?"

Judge Koeltl said that although he was sensitive to security concerns, the MTA had underestimated the tolerance of New Yorkers and overestimated the potential impact of the ad.

"It strains credulity to believe that New Yorkers would be incited to violence by ads that did not incite residents of Chicago and San Francisco," he said.

He delayed enforcing his ruling for 30 days so the MTA could decide whether to appeal.

MTA spokesman Adam Lisberg said they were "disappointed in the ruling and are reviewing our options".

The American Freedom Defense Initiative is run by controversial blogger and activist Pamela Geller. It is listed as an anti-Muslim group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights group."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32407880

New York, a city where you can do everything. 

 

[Ziva 193]

yeah, because that will really solve anything.
I have a feeling it will only trigger off more problems...

[Jan 219]

I don't think NYC is going to go crazy but I don't understand why this ad is necessary.

[Didymus 34,380]

This is a mess. When you don't think it through it's like it's an ad for terrorism. If you don't kill Jews, maybe you can kill Christians or atheists, everyone has their own jihad I mean, what kind of awful use of a tagline.

Since it's an anti-Muslim group who created it, it's even more curious since many Muslims have interpreted the jihad from an inner perspective that has no bearing whatsoever on physical violence. Decidedly not allowing this interpretation of Islam/jihad to receive attention definitely shows that they have no other motive than to misrepresent all American Muslims, which will only trigger more fundamentalism indeed. The opposite should be done. I get that there can't be political action, but I hope public initiatives will take a stand against this bs instead.

Plus, the anti-Palestine/anti-Muslim current running through it is just embarrassing, especially since the ad is shown in the U.S.

[LePetitGAGABLover 21,234]

This is a mess. When you don't think it through it's like it's an ad for terrorism. If you don't kill Jews, maybe you can kill Christians or atheists, everyone has their own jihad I mean, what kind of awful use of a tagline.

Plus, the anti-Palestine/anti-Muslim current running through it is just embarrassing, especially since the ad is

The courts have almost made the freedom of speech the most absolute right in America. This is why people don't get sued or in trouble for doing these ads. You gotta love them courts

[Bebe 17,289]

Uggh this is so disgusting but I understand the ruling.

This seems to obviously be vile, inappropriate and immoral but at the same time we don't want to restrict free speech because something is offensive to our sensibilities.

This is obviously FAR different, but homos-xuality was seen as immoral and offensive and in many places it still is. If we start stopping free speech because people find it disgusting and offensive then there are many causes such as gay rights that would have found that problematic.

I suppose the best way to deal with something like this is to counter it and challenge it as much as possible. Ads with an opposite message to this would be great to see and hopefully there are organisations out there already planning to provide such advertisements. 

Every inch of me despises this and it would be terrifying to live as a jewish or muslim person in this sort of environment. This sort of ignorance just astounds me. We need more leaders standing up against these sort of messages. 

What I don't understand though, is if somebody was a supporter of ISIS and wanted to put an ad out promoting ISIS and such, would that be allowed on a bus? I would assume not because it would be seen as inciting terrorism and violence. If that's the case than this ad shouldn't be allowed by law. 

[Didymus 34,380]

What I don't understand though, is if somebody was a supporter of ISIS and wanted to put an ad out promoting ISIS and such, would that be allowed on a bus? I would assume not because it would be seen as inciting terrorism and violence. If that's the case than this ad shouldn't be allowed by law. 

​Very good point! I, too, was thinking about how odd it is that freedom of speech is invoked in the realm of advertising. I'm sure anti-gay or anti-Obama ads in NY buses would spark instant outrage and controversy and indeed, imagine pro-ISIS ads

Maybe the key lies in the fact that groups can guess the response from the public that sees these ads. An anti-gay or pro-ISIS ad would do nothing good in NY buses, but anti-Muslim sentiments actually do live among the people and there is a widespread fear that Islamic terrorism will strike again in the U.S. Therefore these ads probably do send a message that counts more as a warning of something everybody should be afraid of. Maybe that's why the group behind this does see the ads as productive and useful? Scared people are easy to reach and manipulate. I'm guessing the group can actually gain a lot of casual or serious supporters this way. Sad, but true.

[Bebe 17,289]

​Very good point! I, too, was thinking about how odd it is that freedom of speech is invoked in the realm of advertising. I'm sure anti-gay or anti-Obama ads in NY buses would spark instant outrage and controversy and indeed, imagine pro-ISIS ads

Maybe the key lies in the fact that groups can guess the response from the public that sees these ads. An anti-gay or pro-ISIS ad would do nothing good in NY buses, but anti-Muslim sentiments actually do live among the people and there is a widespread fear that Islamic terrorism will strike again in the U.S. Therefore these ads probably do send a message that counts more as a warning of something everybody should be afraid of. Maybe that's why the group behind this does see the ads as productive and useful? Scared people are easy to reach and manipulate. I'm guessing the group can actually gain a lot of casual or serious supporters this way. Sad, but true.

I mean I suppose the difference with an ad with ISIS is that it's more clear that their message is one of violence and terrorism. I suppose that's the distinction. With this ad they are not explicitly promoting violence but, as you mentioned, they are appealing to a sense fear and confusion already present. Unfortunately that might lead to more violence, but it isn't something clearly promoted by the ad. 

This is something I struggle with more than I would like. It's clearly vile and spreads/strengthens a dangerous idea but I also don't want to restrict people from voicing controversial opinions.

I mean the point of the ad is that they want to stop all aid to Islamic countries, but that's hardly going to do much to stabilize some of these regions or improve US sentiment in such regions. 

It's just a mess on so many levels.
 

[lego 44,165]

This is disgusting and in reality more Muslims have been killed by the Jews when you look at the bodycount since the creation of Israel. But no one would think to ascribe that to Judaism or Torah. And to create such ad would be antisemitic and impermissible. It's really a great business to spread fear against Muslims today, you can invent a fake name, proclaim yourself as expert on terrorism and Islam, write a book about it, and you have thousands of fools already ordering it and Sean Hannity is calling you for an interview.

[Dolev 867]

This is disgusting and in reality more Muslims have been killed by the Jews when you look at the bodycount since the creation of Israel. But no one would think to ascribe that to Judaism or Torah. And to create such ad would be antisemitic and impermissible. It's really a great business to spread fear against Muslims today, you can invent a fake name, proclaim yourself as expert on terrorism and Islam, write a book about it, and you have thousands of fools already ordering it and Sean Hannity is calling you for an interview.

​Just shut up... really. Muslims are killing each other all over the world and no one cares as long as the Jews are not involved in some way. Millions in Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey,Lebanon & all over the middle east, no one gives a ****. Do You do anything else besides bashing Israel 24/7?

[lego 44,165]

​Just shut up... really. Muslims are killing each other all over the world and no one cares as long as the Jews are not involved in some way. Millions in Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey,Lebanon & all over the middle east, no one gives a ****. Do You do anything else besides bashing Israel 24/7?

What that has to do with anything? You know very well what I said is true. Pamela Geller is Jewish and loud supporter of Israel, she knows nothing but to incite hate towards Muslims in West and you know very well that antisemitic ad wouldn't be allowed.

 

[Melech 9,900]

What that has to do with anything? You know very well what I said is true. Pamela Geller is Jewish and loud supporter of Israel, she knows nothing but to incite hate towards Muslims in West and you know very well that antisemitic ad wouldn't be allowed.

 

​Are you saying that anti-semitism is not a thing in the West? Really? 

[lego 44,165]

​Are you saying that anti-semitism is not a thing in the West? Really? 

I am saying that ad which tries to connect killing of Muslims in Palestine or Lebanon to Jewish religion or form of Jewish worship would never be allowed on NY buses or anywhere.

[Melech 9,900]

I am saying that ad which tries to connect killing of Muslims in Palestine or Lebanon to Jewish religion or form of Jewish worship would never be allowed on NY buses or anywhere.

​Muslims in Palestine or Lebanon weren't killed because they were "Muslims" (because they attacked Israel) unlike Jews that get attacked because they are Jewish. 

[lego 44,165]

​Muslims in Palestine or Lebanon weren't killed because they were "Muslims" (because they attacked Israel) unlike Jews that get attacked because they are Jewish. 

Or they get attacked because Jewish people occupied their land and killed and oppressed them for decades. Stop trying to make it as purely a religious conflict and make Israelis like innocent little lambs who never do anything wrong. I can also give you an examples of IDF soldiers or Times of Israel writers quoting Torah in support of last Gaza aggression, articles such as "when genocide is permissible" can still be found in google cache. That still wouldn't be allowed to present as ad to smear all Jewish people as blood thirsty monsters inspired by their religion.