Turkey: Accepting Armenian genocide is racist from Europe

[Melech 9,900]

"

ISTANBUL —  Turkey’s prime minister on Friday accused Europe of showing signs of racism after the European Parliament passed a resolution calling on his government to recognize the mass killings of Armenians in the collapsing Ottoman Empire as genocide.

Although Turkey vowed to disregard the resolution, government officials have lashed out at the European Parliament, the legislature of the European Union, accusing it of contriving obstacles to relations with Turkey. But the remarks by the prime minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, went further.

“The European Parliament should not take decisions that would result in hatred toward a certain religion or ethnic group if it wants to contribute to peace,” Mr. Davutoglu told reporters in Ankara. “This issue is now beyond the Turkish-Armenian issue. It’s a new reflection of the racism in Europe.”r

 

The tensions came a week before Armenians across the world plan to commemorate the 100th anniversary of what historians recognize as the first genocide of the 20th century. Armenians say that as many as 1.5 million Armenian Christians were systematically killed from 1915 to 1923 through mass slaughter, starvation and deportation into the Syrian desert.

While Turkey acknowledges that atrocities took place, it refuses to take responsibility for the deaths, claiming that a large number of people — many of them Turks — were also killed as a result of civil war and famine. Over the past century, all Turkish governments have vehemently rejected the term genocide.

The debate over the characterization of the 1915 events gained momentum after Pope Francis described them as genocide on Sunday in a Mass to commemorate the killings. The statement caused a diplomatic uproar from Turkey, which recalled its ambassador to the Vatican.

The European Parliament’s resolution on Wednesday calling on Turkey to normalize relations with Armenia and recognize the genocide further enraged the Turkish government.

In a call with Martin Schulz, the president of the European Parliament, Mr. Davutoglu urged Europe to look in its own backyard by opening up its archives on events affecting native tribes.

“If we open the books on European history, there will be questions about what was done in Asia and Africa,” Mr. Davutoglu said. “What happened to the original tribes there? Where are the Aborigines? Where are the Native Americans?”

He continued: “We never had ghettos. Ghettos are a European product. First there is ethnic discrimination, then there is genocide.”

After the European Parliament’s vote, Mr. Davutoglu’s chief adviser, Etyen Mahcupyan, an ethnic Armenian, caused a bit of an uproar by appearing to break with the government’s opposition to use of the word genocide.

“If you accept the events in Bosnia and Africa as genocide, it is impossible to call what happened to the Armenians in 1915 something else,” he said.

A day after his statement, the prime minister’s office announced that Mr. Mahcupyan would be stepping down because he had reached retirement age."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/18/world/europe/turkish-premier-says-european-stance-on-armenian-genocide-reflects-racism.html?_r=0

 

It is a genocide what happened, no matter if Turkey like it or not.  

[Paco 3,040]

Turkey is a mess on this subject   they can deny it as much as they want, it IS a genocide   

it was a hundred years ago, i think it's time to stop being delusional and accept the truth, even if it hurts 

[MonsterMum 2,532]

When all else fails, resort to the racism card 

[Goosey 3,017]

The Turks are known for their cruelty for centuries. I don't know why they are in denial.

[Morphine Prince 109,769]

It IS genocide. Stfu  

Just accept it and move on. It was 100 years ago. Learn from it and improve the country. 

[Luc 4,776]

Many Turkish people take it so personally... it was 100 years ago, it wasn't them who did it. Just accept that it happened :facepalm: 

[User 352]

Turkey is a mess on this subject   they can deny it as much as they want, it IS a genocide   

it was a hundred years ago, i think it's time to stop being delusional and accept the truth, even if it hurts 

​When it's that easy, why the United States  deny their genocide on indigenous peoples? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples#United_States_colonization_and_westward_expansion

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302

Thus, according to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a"vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record." By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the"worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people." In the judgment of Lenore A. Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr.,"there can be no more monumental example of sustained genocide—certainly none involving a 'race' of people as broad and complex as this—anywhere in the annals of human history." - See more at: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302#sthash.5B0CZdzL.dpuf

Why the EU don't talk about this subject ? As always, it's geo-strategic reasons and has nothing to do with humanity. Sad, but the only true reason in politic.

[Paco 3,040]

​When it's that easy, why the United States  deny their genocide on indigenous peoples? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples#United_States_colonization_and_westward_expansion

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302

Thus, according to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a"vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record." By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the"worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people." In the judgment of Lenore A. Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr.,"there can be no more monumental example of sustained genocide—certainly none involving a 'race' of people as broad and complex as this—anywhere in the annals of human history." - See more at: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302#sthash.5B0CZdzL.dpuf

Why the EU don't talk about this subject ? As always, it's geo-strategic reasons and has nothing to do with humanity. Sad, but the only true reason in politic.

​The EU does talk about it tho, the french president went to the commemorations of the genocide, germany recognized the genocide, and so on

But yes the reason is politic and ego 

And about the US not recognizing the genocide on indigenous people, it probably is because of the same reasons  

 

[Luc 4,776]

​When it's that easy, why the United States  deny their genocide on indigenous peoples? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples#United_States_colonization_and_westward_expansion

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302

Thus, according to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a"vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record." By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the"worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people." In the judgment of Lenore A. Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr.,"there can be no more monumental example of sustained genocide—certainly none involving a 'race' of people as broad and complex as this—anywhere in the annals of human history." - See more at: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302#sthash.5B0CZdzL.dpuf

Why the EU don't talk about this subject ? As always, it's geo-strategic reasons and has nothing to do with humanity. Sad, but the only true reason in politic.

​The Indian 'genocide', slavery, discrimination, etc. is generally accepted in the US. Turkey keeps denying what they did to Armenians. And no, it's not geo-strategic. Doing this is the opposite of geo-strategic: Europe and Russia want as many 'allies' in the rest of the world as possible. This way, they make trade and diplomacy worse with Turkey, which benefits nobody in the EU. It benefits Russia, which is what the EU doesn't want.

I don't see how this is a strategic move in any way?

[xoxo cupcakke 4,781]

​The Indian 'genocide', slavery, discrimination, etc. is generally accepted in the US. Turkey keeps denying what they did to Armenians. And no, it's not geo-strategic. Doing this is the opposite of geo-strategic: Europe and Russia want as many 'allies' in the rest of the world as possible. This way, they make trade and diplomacy worse with Turkey, which benefits nobody in the EU. It benefits Russia, which is what the EU doesn't want.

I don't see how this is a strategic move in any way?

First off, Native Americans, not Indians. Indians are from India and it's 2015. Sorry, just a huge pet peeve of mine

Also, what you say is true but Americans are very reluctant to call it genocide as much as the Turkish people are to call the Armenian genocide a genocide

It's weird. Like European Americans that have been here since colonization or westward expansion are willing to admit that many natives were slaughtered but once someone brings up words like genocide and ethnic cleansing, they immediately get really defensive. It's so paradoxical

[Luc 4,776]

First off, Native Americans, not Indians. Indians are from India and it's 2015. Sorry, just a huge pet peeve of mine

Also, what you say is true but Americans are very reluctant to call it genocide as much as the Turkish people are to call the Armenian genocide a genocide

It's weird. Like European Americans that have been here since colonization or westward expansion are willing to admit that many natives were slaughtered but once someone brings up words like genocide and ethnic cleansing, they immediately get really defensive. It's so paradoxical

​I get it. 'they did it too!' isn't a valid argument, though. It's just an attempt to bring attention away from the problem this thread shows, which is the reluctance to call it a genocide (even going as far as to call it 'self defense') in Turkey.

[AlphaMonster 1,806]

​I get it. 'they did it too!' isn't a valid argument, though. It's just an attempt to bring attention away from the problem this thread shows, which is the reluctance to call it a genocide (even going as far as to call it 'self defense') in Turkey.

First of all, I am going to talk from monetary perspective, because we all know that what matters in world's politics is always money. Reason why Armenia tries so hard for Turkey to recognize genocide is reparation money, and the reason why Turkey 100% denies genocide is also because Turkey does not want to reparations.

​Here my valid arguments:

- "Genocide" was executed upon orders of a monarch, and a sort of political party who took over some powers with coup in ottoman empire. The both authorities were never chosen by citizens. While Republic of Turkey is a parliamentary democracy, constitutionally different country. This is an important point, because no country paid reparations to other countries for genocides or other war crimes happened in imperial period. For example: Germany's citizens chose Hitler's party democratically.

- Turkey is willing historians from both country to discuss the issue for years. Turkey also opened up all of his historical archives about so-called genocide; but Armenia opened neither their historical archives about it, nor took any step for historians to talk about it objectively. There are so many historians in Turkey who recognizes Genocide too. 

- Turkey simply does not give a ****. I don't understand people saying Turkey is delusional about it, no baby girl you are too innocent for this! This is politics, and it is all about money... If there was no such possibility of Turkey's paying reparation, no one would even discuss the issue. No one cares if Turkey recognizes it or not, why any country would like whole world to know that they were massacred by some other country in the past, how weak they were, they would not, if it was not for money.

- Turkey is a G-20 country, has one of the most rapidly growing economies in the world, and 2nd biggest army power in NATO, and supported by USA all the time because ,with Israel, Turkey is the only country which can take legit stance against Iran in war conditions in middle east. And also Turkey is only mostly muslim populated laic country in the world, has a cultural dominance over the eastern europe( old Ottoman Empire territories) ,given the fact that even some most popular TV shows in Eastern Europe are mostly Turkish Shows such as "Magnificent Century". In the end, Turkey holds x30 more strategical powers than Armenia. It especially became lot harder to force Turkey to recognize the genocide (pay reparations) since Turkey lost its interest in becoming a part of EU due to economical recession of eurozone. (Gave so much info, 'cause y'all americans mostly don't know sh*t except hitler, france, WWII, USSR  ) Why are these info relevant ? It explains why Western European countries are vocal about armenian "genocide", while USA, eastern european countries do either not recognize it as genocide, or are not vocal about it. It is politics. Most of the info you can hear from newspapers from TV from movies about the issue is politics of different countries. 

- And last but not least, I personally do not know if a genocide happened ... I am not a historian, we knew there was a massacre, but is it enough to call it a genocide ? We are ordinary people with no deep understanding of history, and no time to go through huge historical archives, to conclude something clearly. It should be up to historians to discuss it. There are evidences in favor of both countries. You all seem to know Armenian argument, so Watch this, Turkish Argument: https://www.facebook.com/factcheckarmenia/videos/780885798627271/ . 

- And also, there is no seeming racism against Armenia in Turkey now (at least in Istanbul), despite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Secret_Army_for_the_Liberation_of_Armenia (ASALA), or System of a Down who always found an orgasmic pleasure in constantly saying that Turks are killers, liars etc. (lol at them, what type of people thinks that people from one nation can all be the same) In Istanbul, Armenians even have their own missionary schools... Most armenians do not go to them tho; 6 people from my class in high school were armenians.

 

[AlphaMonster 1,806]

Many Turkish people take it so personally... it was 100 years ago, it wasn't them who did it. Just accept that it happened :facepalm: 

​HONEY IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY  If it was for sure that Turkey will not pay reparations, they would recognize it.... Please !!! In politics, what matters is what you feel inside your pocket...

[lego 44,165]

First of all, I am going to talk from monetary perspective, because we all know that what matters in world's politics is always money. Reason why Armenia tries so hard for Turkey to recognize genocide is reparation money, and the reason why Turkey 100% denies genocide is also because Turkey does not want to reparations.

​Here my valid arguments:

- "Genocide" was executed upon orders of a monarch, and a sort of political party who took over some powers with coup in ottoman empire. The both authorities were never chosen by citizens. While Republic of Turkey is a parliamentary democracy, constitutionally different country. This is an important point, because no country paid reparations to other countries for genocides or other war crimes happened in imperial period. For example: Germany's citizens chose Hitler's party democratically.

- Turkey is willing historians from both country to discuss the issue for years. Turkey also opened up all of his historical archives about so-called genocide; but Armenia opened neither their historical archives about it, nor took any step for historians to talk about it objectively. There are so many historians in Turkey who recognizes Genocide too. 

- Turkey simply does not give a ****. I don't understand people saying Turkey is delusional about it, no baby girl you are too innocent for this! This is politics, and it is all about money... If there was no such possibility of Turkey's paying reparation, no one would even discuss the issue. No one cares if Turkey recognizes it or not, why any country would like whole world to know that they were massacred by some other country in the past, how weak they were, they would not, if it was not for money.

- Turkey is a G-20 country, has one of the most rapidly growing economies in the world, and 2nd biggest army power in NATO, and supported by USA all the time because ,with Israel, Turkey is the only country which can take legit stance against Iran in war conditions in middle east. And also Turkey is only mostly muslim populated laic country in the world, has a cultural dominance over the eastern europe( old Ottoman Empire territories) ,given the fact that even some most popular TV shows in Eastern Europe are mostly Turkish Shows such as "Magnificent Century". In the end, Turkey holds x30 more strategical powers than Armenia. It especially became lot harder to force Turkey to recognize the genocide (pay reparations) since Turkey lost its interest in becoming a part of EU due to economical recession of eurozone. (Gave so much info, 'cause y'all americans mostly don't **** except hitler, france, WWII, USSR )

- And last but not least, I personally do not know if a genocide happened ... I am not a historian, we knew there was a massacre, but is it enough to call it a genocide ? We are ordinary people with no deep understanding of history, and no time to go through huge historical archives, to conclude something clearly. It should be up to historians to discuss it. There are evidences in favor of both countries. You all seem to know Armenian argument, so Watch this, Turkish Argument: https://www.facebook.com/factcheckarmenia/videos/780885798627271/ . 

- And also, there is no seeming racism against Armenia in Turkey now (at least in Istanbul), despite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Secret_Army_for_the_Liberation_of_Armenia (ASALA), or System of a Down who found an orgasmic pleasure in constantly saying that Turks are killers, liars etc. (lol at them, what type of people thinks that people from one nation can all be the same) In Istanbul, Armenians even have their own missionary schools... Most armenians do not go to them tho; 6 people from my class in high school were armenians.

 

​HONEY IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY  If it was for sure that Turkey will not pay reparations, they would recognize it.... Please !!! In politics, what matters is what you feel inside your pocket...

Now it all makes sense. That's why also some other countries refuse to recognize or even apologize for massacres in their (more recent) past, which could also be genocides. But no one is pressuring them. Very interesting.

[AlphaMonster 1,806]

The Turks are known for their cruelty for centuries. I don't know why they are in denial.

What you go through is called dunning-kruger effect. Let me tell you, you don't know anything, but you think you do, which makes you be unaware of your incapability in such topic. 

1-  "I don't know why they are in denial." This sentence declares that you do not know anything about the issue yet still have an idea; also your brain is incapable of establishing interrelations among real consequences of an action, claimed consequences of an action, and how people markets the appeal of action by romanticizing it ,by boosting emotions in it. Real consequence might require reparation, claimed consequence will bring the peace, armenia markets "Turkey's recognizing genocide" by romanticizing it like "Justice will be secured","Our pain will be recognized.". While one who knows a little history would easily see that it is about money, but everybody uses their own psychological war technics, and ones ,who do not know anything profound like you, get easily affected by such strategies, and just have gibberish unsubstantiated opinions on such issues. Don't get me wrong, there also Turks just like you who think there is no possibility that Ottoman Empire did a genocide.. Only difference between you and them is that you were manipulated towards the two opposite paths.

2- "The Turks are known for their cruelty for centuries." is racist but I do not give a sh*t actually.