People freak out when he hits her in public. Watch what happens when she hits him.

[witchcocktor 1,438]

​That's using a belligerent and unstable minority to judge a diverse group of people, though. Like saying you wouldn't want to be a Muslim because of the terrorists, or a German because of the Nazis.  

Honestly, I think people focus too much on the word itself and it distracts conversation away from the actual issues.  

​#notallmen

[Kayla 7,595]

​I consider myself a feminist but I think if we want equality it should start with the word, why Feminism if it could be called Euqalism or simply Equality? as a word I think Feminism concetrates to much on Females, which would be just the oppisite of Patriarchy, while the balance is important, thus a word along the lines of Equality would be good

​I think "Equality" makes it too broad if we are trying to focus on a specific issue- how genders/s-xes are treated differently. Social justice issues fall under the umbrella of Equality, but each deserve their own section, imo. 

All things considered, I do support the idea of changing the name. I believe women need more help and statistically are more oppressed than men worldwide, but if/when we reach a point where men and women are mostly equal there will still be inequalities for both s-xes that would need to be addressed- we couldn't just keep focusing so intensely on women. 

Now...WOMENS Rights are still important. There are certain rights that just can't be granted to males. (like Women's Reproductive Rights- men don't have the equipment :P) And there are also Mens Rights that can't be granted to women for the same reasons. I also stated above the study that showed women in the band-music industry jumped from 5% to 25% just by having people audition behind a curtain because the judges tended to be so anti-women- that's a Women's Issue because clearly men were not affected by s-xism when auditioning to get those parts in the band/orchestra. 

But when it comes to rights BOTH genders should have, or issues BOTH genders face. Raped or being forced to penetrate is something both genders face. Domestic violence, parental rights, self image, etc. are issues that both genders struggle with and could do well with a word that acknowledges both parties without needing to see the definition. 

[Kayla 7,595]

​#notallmen

​The #YesAllWomen hashtag was not saying "ALL MEN DO THIS!", they were saying things that (almost) all women have faced. I really hate how people have taken that and used it to say that women were man-hating. Just because I talk about something I've faced that involved a guy does not mean I'm blaming all men for it; I'm simply stating it's happened to me too. 

And that hashtag actually did a lot of good for women. We haven't been able to REALLY speak about these things before. It made us not feel so alone when it comes to those things. 

Majority of us tweeting #YesAllWomen know that what happened to us is #notallmen. 

[Haroon 49,685]

I find it horrible that there's this societal pressure on men to not speak up if they are experiencing abuse, sometimes it doesn't even register as abuse to them because "men don't get abused, man up sissy"  Yes, men may be the physically stronger s-x biologically but that doesn't make them immune to emotional, physical, and mental abuse from anyone, including women.

Regardless of gender, violence and abuse should not be tolerated in the slightest  

[witchcocktor 1,438]

​The #YesAllWomen hashtag was not saying "ALL MEN DO THIS!", they were saying things that (almost) all women have faced. I really hate how people have taken that and used it to say that women were man-hating. Just because I talk about something I've faced that involved a guy does not mean I'm blaming all men for it; I'm simply stating it's happened to me too. 

And that hashtag actually did a lot of good for women. We haven't been able to REALLY speak about these things before. It made us not feel so alone when it comes to those things. 

Majority of us tweeting #YesAllWomen know that what happened to us is #notallmen. 

​So a bunch of women trending a topic about how MEN have disrespected them. It doesn't sit well with me. How would women feel about a tag #yesallmen where men grouped up and told how women have mistreated them in their life? Would you be totally up for that as well?

[Kayla 7,595]

​So a bunch of women trending a topic about how MEN have disrespected them. It doesn't sit well with me. How would women feel about a tag #yesallmen where men grouped up and told how women have mistreated them in their life? Would you be totally up for that as well?

​That's taking one issue and spinning it around to make it about someone else. It's using women's issues to say "WHAT ABOUT ME?!" or "Yeah but I'm not like that so your argument isn't as valid."
 

Men have had the floor for decades, and then once women start speaking up they decide they should have a #YesAllMen hashtag too?

It's like how when there was #BlackOutDay people started doing #WhiteOutDay to show their "White Pride." Let's be honest- they didn't have a NEED to show their beauty and support of white culture because it wasn't until black people started speaking out that they felt threatened. 

When someone is speaking out against bad things that have happened to them it's rude to disregard what they're saying to make it about yourself.
You can have your time to talk about your issues, but don't do so by disregarding ours and using our trends. 

Similarly, if men were talking about parental rights I wouldn't jump in and say "But what about WOMEN?!" because that's rude. I'd talk about my issue separately so that the people who need help could have the floor and not have their moment stolen by someone else. 

 

EDIT: I don't have a problem with men talking about their issues. I believe they should, and I believe their issues deserve to be treated seriously. But I don't support men using something women have done to talk about their issues to make it about themselves instead. 
Don't make #WhiteOutDay in response to #BlackOutDay. Don't make #YesAllMen in response to #YesAllWomen. 
If you want a platform to talk about your issues, don't steal someone else's platform by pushing them off it while they're trying to talk about their struggles.

[witchcocktor 1,438]

​That's taking one issue and spinning it around to make it about someone else. It's using women's issues to say "WHAT ABOUT ME?!" 
Men have had the floor for decades, and then once women start speaking up they decide they should have a #YesAllMen hashtag too?

It's like how when there was #BlackOutDay people started doing #WhiteOutDay to show their "White Pride." Let's be honest- they didn't have a NEED to show their beauty and support of white culture because it wasn't until black people started speaking out that they felt threatened. 

When someone is speaking out against bad things that have happened to them it's rude to disregard what they're saying to make it about yourself.
You can have your time to talk about your issues, but don't do so by disregarding ours and using our trends. 

Similarly, if men were talking about parental rights I wouldn't jump in and say "But what about WOMEN?!" because that's rude. I'd talk about my issue separately so that the people who need help could have the floor and not have their moment stolen by someone else. 

​Feminism never ever EVER has given men the chance to speak about themselves. Because when they do, they themselves discredit all of it and play the '' but what about the women '' card. There is no awareness in men being less and less educated than women, about their body issues, about their suicide rates, about their parental rights. Nothing, absolutely nothing. So to say '' men have floored for decades '' is an insult towards me. I get nothing. I want to speak up, but I can't, because I'm the villain if I care about the problems I face. Because women '' allegedly '' always have it worse.

Feminism is supposed to be about equality. But you don't want equality, do you? If you really wanted equality, the #YesAllMen tag would be completely okay to you. But instead, you are hurt that men want to have a voice for their problems as well. If you really believe in equality, you'd give that to me, to us, but you are afraid of us getting... what, some visibility on actual issues?

I understand that it might seem passive-aggressive to you, but it ain't. Yes, some men might actually use it as a weapon against feminists, but you have your fair share of ****ing idiots, but you don't want your '' movement '' to be classified as just these kinds of people, and neither do the men who actually care about their problems. But they aren't given the safe environment to speak about them, and mostly due to rampant sjws and feminists who WILL pull the '' what about the women '' so you aren't all cupcakes and fairytales either.

But fine, maybe men should keep away from feminists trends (even if feminism is about equality??? idk???) but I better see you supporting all the instances of men starting a male-positive trend in twitter, and calling out all the stupid feminists who would ****ING DARE to make such trends about themselves? Okay?

[mister max 18,480]

​Feminism: A movement that seeks to achieve social, political, and economic equality for people of all genders.

​i mean feminsim comes from femine with means woman right?

i just dont like the term "feminsim", if i could be another word

[Kayla 7,595]

​Feminism never ever EVER has given men the chance to speak about themselves. Because when they do, they themselves discredit all of it and play the '' but what about the women '' card. There is no awareness in men being less and less educated than women, about their body issues, about their suicide rates, about their parental rights. Nothing, absolutely nothing. So to say '' men have floored for decades '' is an insult towards me. I get nothing. I want to speak up, but I can't, because I'm the villain if I care about the problems I face. Because women '' allegedly '' always have it worse.

Feminism is supposed to be about equality. But you don't want equality, do you? If you really wanted equality, the #YesAllMen tag would be completely okay to you. But instead, you are hurt that men want to have a voice for their problems as well. If you really believe in equality, you'd give that to me, to us, but you are afraid of us getting... what, some visibility on actual issues?

I understand that it might seem passive-aggressive to you, but it ain't. Yes, some men might actually use it as a weapon against feminists, but you have your fair share of ****ing idiots, but you don't want your '' movement '' to be classified as just these kinds of people, and neither do the men who actually care about their problems. But they aren't given the safe environment to speak about them, and mostly due to rampant sjws and feminists who WILL pull the '' what about the women '' so you aren't all cupcakes and fairytales either.

But fine, maybe men should keep away from feminists trends (even if feminism is about equality??? idk???) but I better see you supporting all the instances of men starting a male-positive trend in twitter, and calling out all the stupid feminists who would ****ING DARE to make such trends about themselves? Okay?

 

Men being less and less educated than women? Worldwide women are the more illiterate of the cultures. The US is an exception, and even with our exception the numbers stay close to 50/50. 

However, I touched on the problem of the name "feminism" in areas where women begin to excel over men (as in developed world education) with this comment:

 

but if/when we reach a point where men and women are mostly equal there will still be inequalities for both s-xes that would need to be addressed- we couldn't just keep focusing so intensely on women.

^ So I do think, in the US, female education needs to take a step back and we need to focus on education for those in poverty instead of making it a gender/s-x issue. 

Now- ​Because I disagree with you on something you're saying I don't want equality? 
If I really believed in equality I'd ______, right?

Here are excerpts from some of my other posts in this thread (the thread where I banned someone for being anti-men):

 

"I really hate this double standard. You shouldn't be allowed to hit somebody- period. "

"There are certainly ways in which men get unfair treatment. This scenario, and in the scenario of being "forced to penetrate." 
Statistically, the current definition of "rape" leaves the victims as women. If you include "forced to penetrate" in the definition of rape, the number of men and women raped becomes more equal. 
Also, more men suffer from mental illness and mental illness has been stigmatized for decades. 

I certainly think there are things we need to help men with, and there are certain problems we focus solely on women for that we need to include men on more often. "
 

"Raped or being forced to penetrate is something both genders face. Domestic violence, parental rights, self image, etc. are issues that both genders struggle with and could do well with a word that acknowledges both parties without needing to see the definition. "

 

 

I'm not against men talking about their issues. I'm against them using the platform that was built for women's issues.
You bring up women who say "What about WOMEN?!" when men talk about their issues, and I'm against them too. 

My whole point revolved around one group of people not taking advantage of another group's soapbox. 
This goes for white people hijacking black pride, men hijacking women's hashtags, AND women hijacking men speaking out. It's all rude.

When I say men have had the floor for decades I'm referring to the fact that they've been in more of a position of power for decades worldwide. They've been a very dominating force. I'm not saying they don't have struggles, they don't have inequalities, etc. I'm saying we've lived in a world where women can't drive cars in some places, can't leave their homes without a man in others, have to cover their face/bodies (for many reasons, I am aware, not all pointing to s-xism), -
Did you know that when bicycling became a thing people tried to keep women away from it? The bicycle gave them freedom to travel at will and caused their clothing to be changed (can't quite bike in a floorlength skirt) and as a result doctors advised against women riding bikes for all sorts of health reasons (only applied to women, elderly men, and girls) one of which included "bicycle face" - they warned that when learning to ride a bike, you would make unattractive faces and therefore should avoid riding.  
Also, see the studies on women in the music/band/orchestral industry before and after blind auditions. http://www.nber.org/papers/w5903 (I talked about it in the thread too)

 

My point is- overall, women do face more struggles. BUT. Men also face struggles that should be taken seriously. Mental health issues, parental rights issues, suicide rates, rape by being forced to penetrate, domestic violence and lack of male domestic violence shelters, self image issues, etc. They're all important and I don't agree with women who yell "BUT WHAT ABOUT WOMEN?" when men try to have their conversations too. 

 

Regarding supporting men-positive trends, I DO support those. I recently learned about the issue of forced to penetrate rape and when the topic of s-xual violence comes up I include it in the words. I've shared content about the struggles young men face without the feminine/female context. I've talked about those things in this thread too. (I actually was sharing that stuff from feminist blogs who were in support of men speaking out)

I think we ultimately agree on a lot of things, but look at it very differently because we come from different sides of the equation. Regardless, our answer is the same- everybody deserves to be treated fairly and have equality. 

[Kayla 7,595]

Sorry about my hella long and all over post. Wrote it as I had to leave for work so there was very little editing time. But I'd love to continue the conversation with you later today.  

[Serendipity 7,821]

Oh no. Not this again.. How many times they'll do the same experiment? Ok, we all get that. Not only women experience physical and mental abuse and blah blah.. But this particular experiment is useless, because everyone understands that any young and healthy man is stronger than a woman, and all he has to do in this situation is to grab woman's hands and she'll be powerless against a man holding her unless she's a professionally trained body-builder or sth. They should put an old man or obviously sick man in place of that young man and I'm sure that people would call abusive woman out.

It's not equal when you put a chichuachua and a german shepherd and expect people to defend german shepherd from chichachua. German shepherd is much stronger and can easily kill chichuachua in one bite, while chiquachua can only bite into german shepherd's leg and in the worst case german shepherd can easily escape, because he's much bigger and faster. This is how I see men and women. Any young and healthy man is stronger than me. I know this for sure. So. While a man can easily defend himself from me, I can not. That's why strange people interfere. 

That said. I don't believe in any kind of violence. And sorry for my a--logy with dogs. I don't want any animal or human to fight, but that's my explanation why people do not defend that man in that video.  

 

I find it horrible that there's this societal pressure on men to not speak up if they are experiencing abuse, sometimes it doesn't even register as abuse to them because "men don't get abused, man up sissy"  Yes, men may be the physically stronger s-x biologically but that doesn't make them immune to emotional, physical, and mental abuse from anyone, including women.

Regardless of gender, violence and abuse should not be tolerated in the slightest  

​

 whatever haroon said

​

[doveve 526]

 

 

​

 whatever haroon said

​

​Where did I say that men should be immune to abuse? I didn't. I did state that I am against any kind of abuse and that men also experience abuse. I am not stupid. We are all human-beings with the same emotions regardless of our s-x. However, we aren't same physically. This is an old FACT and everyone knows it. I was just stating my opinion why people didn't defend the guy. There was no emotional abuse. Only physical. And in this case, the man is ten times stronger than a woman. So, he can easily defend himself.  

[Melech 9,900]

Oh no. Not this again.. How many times they'll do the same experiment? Ok, we all get that. Not only women experience physical and mental abuse and blah blah.. But this particular experiment is useless, because everyone understands that any young and healthy man is stronger than a woman, and all he has to do in this situation is to grab woman's hands and she'll be powerless against a man holding her unless she's a professionally trained body-builder or sth. They should put an old man or obviously sick man in place of that young man and I'm sure that people would call abusive woman out.

It's not equal when you put a chichuachua and a german shepherd and expect people to defend german shepherd from chichachua. German shepherd is much stronger and can easily kill chichuachua in one bite, while chiquachua can only bite into german shepherd's leg and in the worst case german shepherd can easily escape, because he's much bigger and faster. This is how I see men and women. Any young and healthy man is stronger than me. I know this for sure. So. While a man can easily defend himself from me, I can not. That's why strange people interfere. 

That said. I don't believe in any kind of violence. And sorry for my a--logy with dogs. I don't want any animal or human to fight, but that's my explanation why people do not defend that man in that video.  

​People looking away is wrong. No matter if a man or a woman gets abused. Simply is that. Violence is always wrong and if I see someone being abused I try to help no matter men or woman. If the men would defend himself it would look like he would abuse the woman. Or the abused men doesn't believe in violence. 

[Melech 9,900]

​Where did I say that men should be immune to abuse? I didn't. I did state that I am against any kind of abuse and that men also experience abuse. I am not stupid. We are all human-beings with the same emotions regardless of our s-x. However, we aren't same physically. This is an old FACT and everyone knows it. I was just stating my opinion why people didn't defend the guy. There was no emotional abuse. Only physical. And in this case, the man is ten times stronger than a woman. So, he can easily defend himself.  

​I can't at your ignorance  

[MonsterOfSpain 8,331]

​Where did I say that men should be immune to abuse? I didn't. I did state that I am against any kind of abuse and that men also experience abuse. I am not stupid. We are all human-beings with the same emotions regardless of our s-x. However, we aren't same physically. This is an old FACT and everyone knows it. I was just stating my opinion why people didn't defend the guy. There was no emotional abuse. Only physical. And in this case, the man is ten times stronger than a woman. So, he can easily defend himself.  

A man is not ten times stronger than a woman lmao