Why didn't Beyoncé's 4 receive the criticism that ARTPOP did?

[Joaco95 1,631]

​Nah, I don't agree with this at all. I don't think 4 is in the slightest bit "indie". Not even in spirit. Its purely commercial but done in a very respectable way harking back to classic R&B.

ARTPOP is pure pop, as I said in my previous post, but there is nothing on 4 that is as challenging (or challenging at all) to commercialized music as Swine or Venus. For better or for worse. Thats not said to brand Gaga this progressive genius in music that fully rebelled against the popular with the record, I just think in comparison to 4, ARTPOP was more challenging. Whereas 4 was more classic.

​Think about it, everybody were releasing EDM/Electronic music into mainstream public meanwhile Bey was doing ballads... isn't that a challenge? 

[Dorothy Gale 7,575]

​Think about it, everybody were releasing EDM/Electronic music into mainstream public meanwhile Bey was doing ballads... isn't that a challenge? 

Subject matter is important to. 4 doesn't deal with that many challenging issues besides feminism, and is a safer record overall.

[blacklistedd 599]

​Think about it, everybody were releasing EDM/Electronic music into mainstream public meanwhile Bey was doing ballads... isn't that a challenge? 

​No. Because what she released was not challenging. It harked back to the classics and all in all it was your typical beige adult contemporary meets R&B delivery. It felt like she was going in the direction music was going though, what with Adele re-popularizing a mellower approach in mainstream pop music. Not putting it down, I think Beyonce made a quality record with 4.

Lets also not forget the lead single of the album was an electronic track and quite a bad one might I add. So lets not act like she turned the tables completely. She still pandered to the mainstream.

[Joaco95 1,631]

​No. Because what she released was not challenging. It harked back to the classics and all in all it was your typical beige adult contemporary meets R&B delivery. It felt like she was going in the direction music was going though, what with Adele re-popularizing a mellower approach in mainstream pop music. Not putting it down, I think Beyonce made a quality record with 4.

Lets also not forget the lead single of the album was an electronic track and quite a bad one might I add. So lets not act like she turned the tables completely. She still pandered to the mainstream.

​Run the World was a challenge too. Record Label actually wanted End Of Time as first single because it was a safe release.

[blacklistedd 599]

​Run the World was a challenge too. Record Label actually wanted End Of Time as first single because it was a safe release.

​Run the World wasn't challenging in the slightest. She took an already popular EDM instrumental and threw annoyingly repetitive surface feminism on top of it. Its trash.

End of Time is a quality song. And safe I guess, but Run the World was far more typical of anything she could've released on that album. It stuck out like a sore thumb as something that was tacked on to pander to the EDM crowd because nothing else on the record could.

[StrawberryBlond 14,820]

There's a lot to be said for being an "ordinary" artist. That's what sells, that's what is defended. You can get away with murder when you're normal. Deliver a poor album that doesn't sell, have a flop tour (or don't tour at all), have a mixed critical reception and yet leave the whole thing relatively unscathed. But if you're an artist who takes risks, underperforming will hit you like a ton of bricks. Beyonce is safe and commercial to the point where she can underperform but won't be thought of as such. No one brings up how Beyonce didn't even tour with 4. Her label must have had no faith in her to do that. Gaga toured with AP, something most popstars couldn't have done. Beyonce didn't even tour properly with her new album - only a select few countries at the end of her general tour got to see some of the new work performed live. Basically, she hasn't toured properly with either of her last two albums (in fact, she only toured the UK with her debut album too) and had to tour with a sorta greatest hits/new material tour in order to shift tickets. All in all, she's had 5 albums but only had a proper world tour with 2 of them. Gaga has toured with all 4 of her albums so far, even having a whole tour for an 8 track album and an album that sold less than 3 million worldwide. And yet people have the nerve to call her a flop? Ridiculous.

[comrade 33]

​Nah, I don't agree with this at all. I don't think 4 is in the slightest bit "indie". Not even in spirit. Its purely commercial but done in a very respectable way harking back to classic R&B.

ARTPOP is pure pop, as I said in my previous post, but there is nothing on 4 that is as challenging (or challenging at all) to commercialized music as Swine or Venus. For better or for worse. Thats not said to brand Gaga this progressive genius in music that fully rebelled against the popular with the record, I just think in comparison to 4, ARTPOP was more challenging. Whereas 4 was more classic.

​wut

you just have to look at all the indie sites who went all bananas on 4 cuz they loved it

how many indie critics loved ARTPOP? zilch

4 was nothing like all the other scheisse at that time, it was a breeze of fresh air, and still sounds legit

[blacklistedd 599]

​wut

you just have to look at all the indie sites who went all bananas on 4 cuz they loved it

how many indie critics loved ARTPOP? zilch

4 was nothing like all the other scheisse at that time, it was a breeze of fresh air, and still sounds legit

​Indie sites go bananas for Taylor Swift as well, does that make her music indie? Does her music have an indie spirit? No. And neither did 4. Hipsters go ape **** for certain pop stars and Beyonce is one of them, so was Carly Rae Jepsen, so was Gaga pre-Born This Way. That doesn't prove your point.

Do you have your own opinions? Or do you rely on the thoughts of others, particularly critics and popular opinion, to have a voice? Because quite honestly, you do nothing but trash Lady Gaga on this website and I know you've been on here quite a long time doing that. You are a negative presence, a Madonna stan, and a subtle troll thats managed to stay on here under the radar because no one bothers to pay attention.

I can get into a discussion in regards to 4 vs. ARTPOP in terms of how either album challenged mainstream music in comparison to one another, but im only willing to get into that discussion with you if you're able to do so. And you're not.

[comrade 33]

​Indie sites go bananas for Taylor Swift as well, does that make her music indie? Does her music have an indie spirit? No. And neither did 4. Hipsters go ape **** for certain pop stars and Beyonce is one of them. That doesn't prove your point.

Do you have your own opinions? Or do you rely on the thoughts of others, particularly critics and popular opinion, to have a voice? Because quite honestly, you do nothing but trash Lady Gaga on this website and I know you've been on here quite a long time doing that. You are a negative presence, a Madonna stan, and a subtle troll thats managed to stay on here under the radar because no one bothers to pay attention.

​oh god

if indie critics love taylor swift and people fill their little indie spotify playlists with taylor swift, then yes, it can be described as indie. don't know if that's the case though, but i do know that was the case with 4

you have now quoted me so many times you should've been able to detect my opinions on 4 and ARTPOP

also, i stan for no one, i'm here for the music, don't give a scheisse about anything else

last but not least, I thank you for this attention

[blacklistedd 599]

​oh god

if indie critics love taylor swift and people fill their little indie spotify playlists with taylor swift, then yes, it can be described as indie. don't know if that's the case though, but i do know that was the case with 4

you have now quoted me so many times you should've been able to detect my opinions on 4 and ARTPOP

also, i stan for no one, i'm here for the music, don't give a scheisse about anything else

last but not least, I thank you for this attention

​No. It cannot. You're proving yourself completely unknowledgeable about music in which you claim to be here for.

And i've been frequenting this forum for quite some time, you're not about the music. You're a hater. Im about the music, I don't stan. So don't pull that **** with me. Your negativity is subtle and keeps you under the radar which is why you're still around. You're a self-loathing Gaga fan, here as a pure cynic.

[comrade 33]

​No. It cannot. You're proving yourself completely unknowledgeable about music in which you claim to be here for.

And i've been frequenting this forum for quite some time, you're not about the music. You're a hater.

​you can get off your high horse now, pop music is nothing to get that serious about

[blacklistedd 599]

​you can get off your high horse now, pop music is nothing to get that serious about

​Pop music is what we're here to discuss. Im not on a high horse about it, im calling you out for what you already know that you are. A self loathing Gaga fan here to keep yourself cynically updated on the ongoings of her career and throw some jabs at those that don't share your cynicism towards where shes at and what she does now. If anyone needs to get off their high horse its you, not that im going to deny my own arrogance. But thats another topic.

[comrade 33]

​Pop music is what we're here to discuss. Im not on a high horse about it, im calling you out for what you already know that you are. A self loathing Gaga fan here to keep yourself cynically updated on the ongoings of her career and throw some jabs at those that don't share your cynicism towards where shes at and what she does now. If anyone needs to get off their high horse its you, not that im going to deny my own arrogance. But thats another topic.

​thank you for the diagnosis, I do doubt you have the qualifications for it however

[blacklistedd 599]

​thank you for the diagnosis, I do doubt you have the qualifications for it however

​Well of course you do. You're too far up your own ass to own up to what you do here and im too far up my own to not call you out on it.

All in all, im over this, im gonna go jerk off then head to the gym. Enjoy your day hater.

[venusian 4,686]

bc her fans are loyal and gaga fans expect too much out of gaga.