uo111 5,282 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 well, there isn't a distinction between self-declared atheists and atheists by default. by default, there isn't. but are there atheist "movements", sure, some atheists are interested in promoting secular values and equality and things like that. they may have an ideology, something like humanism, but it isn't "atheism". you're going back a step again. they feel the need to use the word to make the distinction, that's it. atheism isn't a political idea. that would be secularism. atheists having general common ideas is based solely on the circumstance of them not believing in god. not endorsing atheism with a capital A. having a lack of belief in ideas isn't the same as having ideas. there are only atheistic ideologies, as in ideologies that don't feature gods. there's no such thing as an atheist ideology. it's a meaningless statement and it comes from equating lack of a belief system with actual beliefs system. it's a mistake. Okay then he is an atheistic extremist. I can live with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Okay then he is an atheistic extremist. I can live with that. i haven't been reading much about this case and that's not really been the focus of what i've been writing about, but the latest i'm reading is that the police are saying it was over a parking dispute. in that case he'd just be a murderer and his atheism shouldn't be called into question. pretty sure he didn't scream "this is for richard dawkins" when pulling the trigger, but i guess we'll see when more information comes out. if he denies it was anything religiously motivated then hopefully (but i doubt) people will drop the extreme atheist stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,282 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 i haven't been reading much about this case and that's not really been the focus of what i've been writing about, but the latest i'm reading is that the police are saying it was over a parking dispute. in that case he'd just be a murderer and his atheism shouldn't be called into question. pretty sure he didn't scream "this is for richard dawkins" when pulling the trigger, but i guess we'll see when more information comes out. if he denies it was anything religiously motivated then hopefully (but i doubt) people will drop the extreme atheist stuff. If he didn't murder them because of their religion then he isn't. But the idea that someone couldn't possibly be atheist and murder other people for not also being atheist is silly. People murder for a lot less reasons. It's not like the concept of a religious "cleansing" is very far fetched. The only reason you might think so now is because it's mostly well-educated people who are atheists. That can change very quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 But the idea that someone couldn't possibly be atheist and murder other people for not also being atheist is silly. People murder for a lot less reasons. It's not like the concept of a religious "cleansing" is very far fetched. The only reason you might think so know is because it's mostly well-educated people who are atheists. That can change very quickly. never ever said that. but you can't say there is something inherent within atheism to go from "i do not believe in god" to "i want people to die for believing in god". that's the point here - it's impossible to make that leap. that can't be said for actual ideologies and beliefs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,282 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 never ever said that. but you can't say there is something inherent within atheism to go from "i do not believe in god" to "i want people to die for believing in god". that's the point here - it's impossible to make that leap. that can't be said for actual ideologies and beliefs. Logically I agree. When taking actual human beings into account though..... Humans disagreeing with each other is probably the most common reason for homicides. Just the simple act of disagreeing and nothing more can make some people make that leap. No logic involved of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiphEret 1,320 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 never ever said that. but you can't say there is something inherent within atheism to go from "i do not believe in god" to "i want people to die for believing in god". that's the point here - it's impossible to make that leap. that can't be said for actual ideologies and beliefs. Ok, but what if because you don't believe in god and you find horrendous all the terror attack comitted in the name of religion, you decide to kill some religious people because for example" religion is inherently wrong" or something like that...wouldn't be because you are an extreme atheist? or at least a consequence? Luckily we haven't seen much of that coming Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Ok, but what if because you don't believe in god and you find horrendous all the terror attack comitted in the name of religion, you decide to kill some religious people because for example" religion is inherently wrong" or something like that...wouldn't be because you are an extreme atheist? or at least a consequence? Luckily we haven't seen much of that coming no, because that suggests that the source of the extreme behaviour is their atheism. but it's not, it's their warped sense of justice. or some fascistic, undemocratic, hostile, power seeking ideas. that's not a consequence of not believing in god. Logically I agree. When taking actual human beings into account though..... Humans disagreeing with each other is probably the most common reason for homicides. Just the simple act of disagreeing and nothing more can make some people make that leap. No logic involved of course. yeah that's right. and that's why you can't say it's the atheism that's responsible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjang 2,262 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 *Horrible, just awful. RIP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teo 609 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Need jsutice tbh. This is about life lost!! He's been arrested and nobody's letting him out of jail, he's going to court and he'll most likely get a life sentence. Sounds like justice to me, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Really sad, and why the fck doesn't more news cover this?!! Need jsutice tbh. This is about life lost!! I've seen it on CNN, my home page and on local news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Angel 128 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 This pisses me off so much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,282 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 no, because that suggests that the source of the extreme behaviour is their atheism. but it's not, it's their warped sense of justice. or some fascistic, undemocratic, hostile, power seeking ideas. that's not a consequence of not believing in god. yeah that's right. and that's why you can't say it's the atheism that's responsible. Who said that though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Who said that though? the general you, not you in particular. but those who say atheism can be just as extreme as theism, i see it all over twitter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo 4,410 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Who said that though?Everyone who mentions his atheism, in advance of any evidence that it was any part of his motivation for the killing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,282 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 the general you, not you in particular. but those who say atheism can be just as extreme as theism, i see it all over twitter.Atheists can be just as extreme as theists. Atheism and theism are ideas. Neither one is extreme by itself. Everyone who mentions his atheism, in advance of any evidence that it was any part of his motivation for the killing.The parents have stated that they have had run-ins with him before in which he was hateful and flaunting his gun. It's not a farfetched idea and it's silly to think it might be a hate crime. No one said atheism "caused" it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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