Luiz 4,253 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 IS THIS BEING COVERED AT ALL??? i dont watch TV but the fox and cnn websites are covering it I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I can't @ a certain someone in this topic trying to defend extreme atheists. They are no better than extreme theists. no one would disagree that extremists of any kind are better than other extremists (well actually you have to judge based on their actions - what's an extreme knitter? for example). but there has to be something within atheism to call him an extreme atheist, as if it was his atheism that motivated him. if he wants to rid the world of religious people by the barrel of a gun, that has nothing to do with atheism. it is atheistIC because there is no god involved. but nowhere in atheism is there any doctrine that promotes any set of values that would ever lead to such behaviour. you cannot say this about theism. there's no logical leap from "i do not believe in god" to "i want people to die for being religious". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebe 17,289 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Atheist wouldn't be calling themselves atheist if there was no religion. Someone who simply doesn't believe in God doesn't post atheist things on their facebook. Only people who are atheist because of religion would do that. It's silly to imply that atheism and anti-religion are different concepts because atheism literally was born out of disdain for religion. Otherwise, the concept simply would not exist. I fully understand why you think you need a book to be touting to be extremist but, you really don't. Any ideology can be extremist including one that just thinks religious people are wrong. You are confusing atheism with anti-theism. You can't extremely not believe in God, you can be extremely anti-theist (against religion). Atheism isn't born out of disdain for religion, some people might love the idea of God and heaven and wish it was true. They don't believe because they don't think there is enough evidence to support the idea of a God. An anti-theist is likely to be atheist. If you dislike religion then I'm sure you won't be subscribed to any religious beliefs yourself. It is this disdain for religion that probably made them atheist. However, an atheist might like religion or dislike religion, there is no reason to jump from "I don't believe in God" to "I hate religion and people who do believe in God!". Their views on religion are separate from their lack of belief. There isn't any universal belief system for atheists, the only thing they have in common is that they don't believe in God. An atheist can love religion, be neutral about religion or dislike religion. We can call this man an extreme anti-theist, it just doesn't make sense to call him an extreme atheist because there is no way to extremely not believe in God. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,655 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'm a bit disturbed by the comments I'm seeing on this story on Facebook. Comments such as: "If a Muslim kills, he's a terrorist. When a white man kills, it's just a murder and not a hate crime" or "Why isn't he called a Christian terrorist?" First of all, yes many times Muslims are branded as terrorists just for being Muslim, BUT the Muslims that have made it on the news ARE terrorists and have been proven to be Islamic radicals. Second, this man was ATHEIST, not Christian. Calling someone Christian just because they are white isn't so different from calling all Muslims terrorists. People don't even wait for confirmation of the causes of the killings, they just go and comment out of ignorance. This man clearly had strong anti-theist views and was most likely the reason for killing these three Muslims. Some news reports are saying this all happened because of a parking spot, so we'll see how the story develops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiltedbliss 915 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 RIP :( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valextra 58 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Very sad and tragic :( May they rest in peace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo 4,410 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Except it wasn't over religion, apparently -- it was over a parking space:Police said in a statement Wednesday morning that a dispute about parking in the neighborhood of rented condominiums may have led to the incident. “Our preliminary investigation indicates that the crime was motivated by an ongoing neighbor dispute over parking. Hicks is cooperating with investigators,†Lt. Joshua Mecimore, a police spokesman, said. -- http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/10/4545775_three-people-shot-dead-in-chapel.html?rh=1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,282 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 this is really wrong. there's no logic to it at all. is not believing in santa born out of disdain for santa, or like, do you just not believe in santa because you don't think he's real? the concept exists only because the contrary exists, yes. that's it. that's far as you can take this discussion. that has nothing to do with disdain for anything. disagreement is not disdain. not holding beliefs is not disdain. not believing in something is not the same as being anti something. there are atheists who are pro religion and wish they did believe. If someone invented a special term meant to mean that they don't believe in Santa, then yes, I would assume something happened involving Santa because that's weird as **** and why do they care so much? People don't call themselves atheist for no reason. And not believing in something is no reason. Not believing in Santa is no reason to invent/use a term for not believing in Santa. Same thing with God, something more than disbelief causes people to go around telling everyone they are atheist. You are confusing atheism with anti-theism. You can't extremely not believe in God, you can be extremely anti-theist (against religion). Atheism isn't born out of disdain for religion, some people might love the idea of God and heaven and wish it was true. They don't believe because they don't think there is enough evidence to support the idea of a God. An anti-theist is likely to be atheist. If you dislike religion then I'm sure you won't be subscribed to any religious beliefs yourself. It is this disdain for religion that probably made them atheist. However, an atheist might like religion or dislike religion, there is no reason to jump from "I don't believe in God" to "I hate religion and people who do believe in God!". Their views on religion are separate from their lack of belief. There isn't any universal belief system for atheists, the only thing they have in common is that they don't believe in God. An atheist can love religion, be neutral about religion or dislike religion. We can call this man an extreme anti-theist, it just doesn't make sense to call him an extreme atheist because there is no way to extremely not believe in God. A theist can be all those things too. You are making the claim that they are over zealously following some book, but that's not always true. They often (like every single day) break the laws of the book. So what do you call those people? They can't be extremist Muslims because they don't actually follow the book. They might pretend to follow the book, but they don't. In fact, a lot of people say the same thing, "oh those guys aren't real Christians." I'd rather understand that words have multiple meanings and connotations and the word atheist is no exception. Lest we start calling extremist Muslims a different word because they aren't technically Muslim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 If someone invented a special term meant to mean that they don't believe in Santa, then yes, I would assume something happened involving Santa because that's weird as **** and why do they care so much? People don't call themselves atheist for no reason. And not believing in something is no reason. Not believing in Santa is no reason to invent/use a term for not believing in Santa. Same thing with God, something more than disbelief causes people to go around telling everyone they are atheist. Even annoyance is a negative reaction so... A theist can be all those things too. it's not really a hard point to get - because no one really believes in santa or faeries. that's why we have an established term for not believing in god. if people did all believe in santa and it had the history of religion, you'd bet that there'd be a lot of people calling themselves asantaist. the majority of people in the world do believe in religion, however, and that's why there is a call to define yourself as a non believer (and even if you don't define yourself as that, if you simply don't believe in it, it's still what you are, because that's what you call people who don't believe in god). you're right they don't call themselves atheist for no reason, but for one reason, which is that they don't believe in god. whether or not someone calls themselves an atheist has no bearing on the factuality of it. if you don't believe in god, it's what you are. we shouldn't have to call ourselves atheists, no, just as we don't have to call ourselves a-santaist. but that's what you are if you don't believe in santa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 You are making the claim that they are over zealously following some book, but that's not always true. They often (like every single day) break the laws of the book. So what do you call those people? They can't be extremist Muslims because they don't actually follow the book. They might pretend to follow the book, but they don't. In fact, a lot of people say the same thing, "oh those guys aren't real Christians." I'd rather understand that words have multiple meanings and connotations and the word atheist is no exception. Lest we start calling extremist Muslims a different word because they aren't technically Muslim. or they are acting in support of the ideology (islam) as muslims (good or bad muslims) or the principles of the ideology. which you can't do as an atheist because atheism is not an ideology or a belief system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,282 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 it's not really a hard point to get - because no one really believes in santa or faeries. that's why we have an established term for not believing in god. if people did all believe in santa and it had the history of religion, you'd bet that there'd be a lot of people calling themselves asantaist. the majority of people in the world do believe in religion, however, and that's why there is a call to define yourself as a non believer (and even if you don't define yourself as that, if you simply don't believe in it, it's still what you are, because that's what you call people who don't believe in god). you're right they don't call themselves atheist for no reason, but for one reason, which is that they don't believe in god. whether or not someone calls themselves an atheist has no bearing on the factuality of it. if you don't believe in god, it's what you are. we shouldn't have to call ourselves atheists, no, just as we don't have to call ourselves a-santaist. but that's what you are if you don't believe in santa. Because the majority are theist is the reason why people point out their atheism? Is that what you are saying? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Because the majority are theist is the reason why people point out their atheism? Is that what you are saying? that's why you hear about atheism even being mentioned, or that people say that they are atheist. because there is a distinction. it's merely factual. but even if you never heard a soul call themselves atheists, that's what they'd still be. because that's the only weight attached to that label. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,282 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 that's why you hear about atheism even being mentioned, or that people say that they are atheist. because there is a distinction. it's merely factual. but even if you never heard a soul call themselves atheists, that's what they'd still be. because that's the only weight attached to that label. There is a pretty clear distinction between self-declared atheists and atheists by default. Self declared atheist are more invested than just not believing, they do have an ideology or they wouldn't feel the need to use the word. Ideology encompasses political ideas an religious ones. Atheists have some general common ideas. Atheists ideologies are just not in a single book. They are extremist, and they are atheist, and just because not every atheist has the same exact ideology (not every person in a religious sect does either unless you make the claim that they actually follow their holy books), does not mean that they can't be extremist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 There is a pretty clear distinction between self-declared atheists and atheists by default. Self declared atheist are more invested than just not believing, they do have an ideology or they wouldn't feel the need to use the word. Ideology encompasses political ideas an religious ones. Atheists have some general common ideas. Atheists ideologies are just not in a single book. They are extremist, and they are atheist, and just because not every atheist has the same exact ideology (not every person in a religious sect does either unless you make the claim that they actually follow their holy books), does not mean that they can't be extremist. well, there isn't a distinction between self-declared atheists and atheists by default. by default, there isn't. but are there atheist "movements", sure, some atheists are interested in promoting secular values and equality and things like that. they may have an ideology, something like humanism, but it isn't "atheism". you're going back a step again. they feel the need to use the word to make the distinction, that's it. atheism isn't a political idea. that would be secularism. atheists having general common ideas is based solely on the circumstance of them not believing in god. not endorsing atheism with a capital A. having a lack of belief in ideas isn't the same as having ideas. there are only atheistic ideologies, as in ideologies that don't feature gods. there's no such thing as an atheist ideology. it's a meaningless statement and it comes from equating lack of a belief system with actual beliefs system. it's a mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Die 1,864 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Ugly ****ing Horse-****ing Pile Of ****. I hope Bubba rapes him in prison. I hope his execution goes wrong and he is forced to die in agonizing pain. Nod if you wanna make love with the enemy. ❤ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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