Daily Economy Thread

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

but income tax u loose no matter what... Sales tax u can avoid by shopping less. So i still think sales tax too high woukd cause that

In Portugal they raised it to 21% a few years back and ppl did shop less

I dont maybe its worth a try. I know in my Country it woukdnt work. Provinces are responsible for too big a chunck of Government spending to let go of income taxes or Corporate Taxes

Our Federal taxes are lower than in the US. But our Provinces rake in much more money than US States

Thats the entire point of the system. Payroll tax deductions were introduced as a means to fund the military to fight Hitler. Only temporary till the Nazi's were defeated. Then, after the war, was kept in place to help with the great rebuilding project for Europe. Now, simply mandatory to fund the Governemt over spending policies. Give people options, spend less and save, or not. But the current system is pretty much set up to keep lower income people where they are.

[Economy 52,861]

Thats the entire point of the system. Payroll tax deductions were introduced as a means to fund the military to fight Hitler. Only temporary till the Nazi's were defeated. Then, after the war, was kept in place to help with the great rebuilding project for Europe. Now, simply mandatory to fund the Governemt over spending policies. Give people options, spend less and save, or not. But the current system is pretty much set up to keep lower income people where they are.

i see ur point

Still, its an option that would only be left for the rich and middle class

Lower income ppl will be forced to spend most of the money they earn... And forced to pay that flat sales tax. The sales tax has no progression, everyone must pay the same amount

So if u try to rely on more revenue for sales tax, and say you raise it to 20%, both poor people and rich will pay the same rate. And since poor ppl will spend most of what they make, as a percentage of their income they pay more

Search it up. Sales tax isnt liked by many left winged Governments because its a regressive tax. Poor ppl actually end up being hurt the most buy it

The only way to not make it a regressive tax is if essential goods (like foods and clothing) get exempt from sales tax which they do that here in Canada. But if u exempt necessities from sales tax, it will cut off much revenue from that tax and still make sales tax revenue insignificant in comparison to income taxes etc

What u can maybe try to do, is raise sales tax, make sales tax exempt from necessities, and use the extra income to lower income taxes on low income brackets a little bit

Even so, i have a hard time believing sales tax can replace income taxes by much unless u make the sales tax really high... And again, if that discourages ppl from buying goods ur gonna slow down the whole economy. Sure u give ppl the option, but that option will hurt the economy

I can support a modest increase in sales tax (3% or 4%) while exempting necessities from the increase (or any tax at all) and using the money to lower income taxes at bottom income brackets a little bit (2% to 3%) Thats as far as id go in terms of supporting this. :shrug:

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

Exempting necessities is part of the proposal I beleive. But no matter how you slice it, people in the lower income bracket will spend the majority of the money on basic living expenses.

If you look at the historical taxation policies the U.S. corportate taxes and sales taxes prior to the 20th century were the 'only' way that government got funded.

Eliminate payroll taxes and give the middle class back their status as middle class.

[Economy 52,861]

Exempting necessities is part of the proposal I beleive. But no matter how you slice it, people in the lower income bracket will spend the majority of the money on basic living expenses.

If you look at the historical taxation policies the U.S. corportate taxes and sales taxes prior to the 20th century were the 'only' way that government got funded.

Eliminate payroll taxes and give the middle class back their status as middle class.

things were different back then. A lot of the expenses that didnt exist in the past exist now

 

Many people lived in farms. Now they are in the city. You need roads, infrastructure for businesses to a greater degree than before. Also people nowadays have gotten used to a society where they want to be entitled to everything. Healthcare assistance, welfare, old age security, disability etc. Lets not forget other programs and innitiatives that are only ballooning. And lets not forget the drainage of overspending on military :millie:

 

You wanna rely on Corporate taxes and sales taxes alone? your gonna have to cut spending A LOT! and im not sure thats realistic in todays modern society

 

Your taxes are too high tho. im shocked that Americans call Canada socialist yet your income tax rates for most brackets as well as Corporate taxes, investment taxes etc are all higher than in Canada (even factoring in our higher Provincial taxes). This while running a bigger budget deficit as a % of GDP than us.

 

America has many policies killing the middle class. Spending needs to get under control. Only then can u help the middle class and actually do some of the changes to tax policy that your proposing

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

Fair enough...But I contend that Gov. is too invasive, and payroll deductions damage freedom of the citizens. Its not realistic the think that corporate and sales taxes alone are gonna cover the massive infrastructure needed for large cities. But there needs to be a basic policy shift imo. The current system isn't conductive to equality.

[Economy 52,861]

Fair enough...But I contend that Gov. is too invasive, and payroll deductions damage freedom of the citizens. Its not realistic the think that corporate and sales taxes alone are gonna cover the massive infrastructure needed for large cities. But there needs to be a basic policy shift imo. The current system isn't conductive to equality.

i think tax credits and loopholes gottem rid of might be easier...

That way ppl cant escape income taxes or corporate taxes as easily. U pay according to what u earn and thats it. No credits for specific investments, no discounts if a corporation runs a loss. Just tax per revenue at a business or personal level

Lower the taxes, but simplify it to get rid of loopholes rich ppl wre so creative at using.

That might do a lot of good. And that way u can tax a lil more on top income brackets and a lil less on lower income brackets and u help redistribute wealth

Mind u i dont support a huge gap on income brackets tho or else no one will bother to work hard and make lots of money if they fewr half their income will be taxed :MANiCURE:

[Luc 4,776]

but income tax u loose no matter what... Sales tax u can avoid by shopping less. So i still think sales tax too high woukd cause that

In Portugal they raised it to 21% a few years back and ppl did shop less

I dont maybe its worth a try. I know in my Country it woukdnt work. Provinces are responsible for too big a chunck of Government spending to let go of income taxes or Corporate Taxes

Our Federal taxes are lower than in the US. But our Provinces rake in much more money than US States

It didnt't profit Portugal because they didn't low other taxes. That meant that the buying power decreased. That's what happens when sales tax is highered.

It doesn't make people spend way less, because people have way more money and things cost way more at the same time. In my country the VAT is 21% for normal products and 6% for basic necessities like hairdresser visits and food.

I don't think it'd be profitable for the US though. They already have a hard worling, big labour force with good participation. There's no improvement to be made in labour participation. They should higher income taxes fot the highest bracket, cut in military, cut church funding and build infrastructure, education and lower corporate taxes with all they save.

In Europe, they should make the tax system less complicated with less deductions and bonuses and everything. The VAT should be highered and the money you get from the government when unemployed should be cut to motivate prople to find a job. They should also keep investing in green energy, a more regulated banking system and make pensions more income dependent.

[Economy 52,861]

It didnt't profit Portugal because they didn't low other taxes. That meant that the buying power decreased. That's what happens when sales tax is highered.

It doesn't make people spend way less, because people have way more money and things cost way more at the same time. In my country the VAT is 21% for normal products and 6% for basic necessities like hairdresser visits and food.

I don't think it'd be profitable for the US though. They already have a hard worling, big labour force with good participation. There's no improvement to be made in labour participation. They should higher income taxes fot the highest bracket, cut in military, cut church funding and build infrastructure, education and lower corporate taxes with all they save.

In Europe, they should make the tax system less complicated with less deductions and bonuses and everything. The VAT should be highered and the money you get from the government when unemployed should be cut to motivate prople to find a job. They should also keep investing in green energy, a more regulated banking system and make pensions more income dependent.

ok US labor force participation is at a 30 year low at 62.5% which is terrible. Here in Canada its 65% and even thats terrible... too many ppl are retired.

 

As for top income brackets along with state taxes added to the 36% they are already paying 40%+ on income taxes, and their corporations in total are also paying over 40% in most States

 

like if ur suggesting they should be higher, just how high do u wanna tax the rich?

 

Corporations are not moving their headquarters out of the US at record rates for no reason u know. u wanna aggravate the issue?

 

at least the intolerable taxes in the US gave us Burger King which will now be Canadian. For that i wont complain

[Luc 4,776]

ok US labor force participation is at a 30 year low at 62.5% which is terrible. Here in Canada its 65% and even thats terrible... too many ppl are retired.

 

As for top income brackets along with state taxes added to the 36% they are already paying 40%+ on income taxes, and their corporations in total are also paying over 40% in most States

 

like if ur suggesting they should be higher, just how high do u wanna tax the rich?

 

Corporations are not moving their headquarters out of the US at record rates for no reason u know. u wanna aggravate the issue?

 

at least the intolerable taxes in the US gave us Burger King which will now be Canadian. For that i wont complain

The income inequality is so huge in the US. They must be a little bit more socialist, because the middle and lower class could get so much more money if it was more equally divided. 

I thought labour participation rate was higher in the US... you kept talking about the US economy going to become in full force or something so that there's no more improvement to be made in unemployment and things like that. And remember that in the US people work a lot of hours. I mean, compare my country (average of 29 hours a week, most people work part-time) to the US (average of 38 hours a week, it's seen as a disaster that more people are starting to work part time) (eventhough both have about the same GDP per capita). There's way more improvement to be made in labour productivity in the US, but in Europe it's mostly in hours worked.

[Economy 52,861]

The income inequality is so huge in the US. They must be a little bit more socialist, because the middle and lower class could get so much more money if it was more equally divided.

I thought labour participation rate was higher in the US... you kept talking about the US economy going to become in full force or something so that there's no more improvement to be made in unemployment and things like that. And remember that in the US people work a lot of hours. I mean, compare my country (average of 29 hours a week, most people work part-time) to the US (average of 38 hours a week, it's seen as a disaster that more people are starting to work part time) (eventhough both have about the same GDP per capita). There's way more improvement to be made in labour productivity in the US, but in Europe it's mostly in hours worked.

well high taxes on the rich are obviously not the solution cause its clearly not working in the US

We tax the rich less and our income gap isn quite as big

Remember one thing, all tax does is allow redistribution by proving services to average ppl. But the biggest factor is wages...

Guess what? If u drive businesses away with high taxes and over-regulation and the job creation becomes slack because of lack of job creation due to poor business investment u get no competiton for labor and wages stagnate and the middle class suffers

Socialism can at times actually aggravate the issue. The idea of Capitalism isnt meant to be just for the rich. Its suppostu create oppurtuniies for everyone

Now neither capitalism nor socialism to a total extreme is good u need a certain balance...

But be honest with me, if Corporate taxes ecceed 40% in the US along with too income brackets as well... Do you really think even higher taxes is whats gonna solve the income gap? Obviously the problem is other stuff, lack of taxes on the rich is not the issue at all :shrug:

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

I keep thinking in terms of the U.S. ... kinda makes me short sighted.

I think that cost of living index has risen faster than wages. Many jobs pay approx the same as 20 years ago, but rent, food, fuel ect. all cost more.

There needs to be some measures to encourage wage advancement for the middle and lower class. Simply tax this and that as penalty gives us the situation we have now. Wealthy people and buisness expend a great deal of effort to evade or lower their tax liabilty when the could be spending said time on productivity and ways to improve their employees compensation.

[Economy 52,861]

I keep thinking in terms of the U.S. ... kinda makes me short sighted.

I think that cost of living index has risen faster than wages. Many jobs pay approx the same as 20 years ago, but rent, food, fuel ect. all cost more.

There needs to be some measures to encourage wage advancement for the middle and lower class. Simply tax this and that as penalty gives us the situation we have now. Wealthy people and buisness expend a great deal of effort to evade or lower their tax liabilty when the could be spending said time on productivity and ways to improve their employees compensation.

im a great believer in decent minimum wages. Raising them to at least $9/h (for the States that havent) might help

Getting rid of payroll tax would also help.

There needs to be tougher regulation like before 1982 against stock manipulation which prevented stock buy-backs and companies actually had to invest money to grow their business and earnings and grow their stock that way. Regulation like that i support

Raise minimum wage but lower business taxes. U encourage investment to grow earnings and create more jobs while higher minimum wage and no payroll tax would encourage higher pay

I also make the case yet again that Obama care is crushing good jobs by encouraging part-time hiring which pays less not only in total but often per hour as well :shrug:

[Luc 4,776]

There's nothing wrong with part-time jobs. It makes people happier, whuch is a primary goal of the government eventually, and thus causes higher productivity. It also creates job growth.

Business taxes should indeed be lowered... but remember that the big businesses would still rather pay 0% taxes than 20% anyways. It's only going to prevent loss of jobs. I believe more money ahould be put in innovation, infrastructure, education and

They could cut military in half and lower income taxes for thelowest bracket, raise minimum wages (-> less people with food stamps and aocial security so they'll earn it back in way less government spending), invest ~100 billion extra in infrastructure, innovation and green energy and with the rets lower their deficit.

Under Bush military spending rose by 400$ billion... It's barely even necessary.

[Economy 52,861]

There's nothing wrong with part-time jobs. It makes people happier, whuch is a primary goal of the government eventually, and thus causes higher productivity. It also creates job growth.

Business taxes should indeed be lowered... but remember that the big businesses would still rather pay 0% taxes than 20% anyways. It's only going to prevent loss of jobs. I believe more money ahould be put in innovation, infrastructure, education and

They could cut military in half and lower income taxes for thelowest bracket, raise minimum wages (-> less people with food stamps and aocial security so they'll earn it back in way less government spending), invest ~100 billion extra in infrastructure, innovation and green energy and with the rets lower their deficit.

Under Bush military spending rose by 400$ billion... It's barely even necessary.

i agree with more money in innovation and infrastructure and less and military... I also agree with higher minimum wages

I cannot agree with u on part-times tho that will not help the economy. Too many ppl are living in poverty cause of it and ppl will not be "happier" cuz of it. Many ppl are stuck on part-times with low wages because they have been unable to find full times. And part-times usually pay low per hour as it is

If ur working less than 30 hours a week on a low hourly wage... Hiw can that be a good thing?

Personally ive chosen to temporarily take tuesdays off work to relax and sometimes volunteer with things cuz i still live with my parents and my boss was ok with it. We work 9h a day so 4 days a week gives me 36 hours. Thats more hours than most part-time jobs and i make $14/h while minimum wage is $11/h so my income is probably average by part-time standards

After taxes and EI desuctions im only taking home $400/week or $1600 a month!!!!

Now immagine someone in a part-time working less hours thag unlike me, doesnt live with their parents and has real bills to pay!!!! You honestly think its good American companies are hiring so many ppl part-time????

Obama care either needs to be modified or it needs to go. I get there was good intentions behind it but its backfiring in too many ways and doing more harm than good. In fact according to pools, less than hal of Americans actually support it :MANiCURE:

[Luc 4,776]

i agree with more money in innovation and infrastructure and less and military... I also agree with higher minimum wages

I cannot agree with u on part-times tho that will not help the economy. Too many ppl are living in poverty cause of it and ppl will not be "happier" cuz of it. Many ppl are stuck on part-times with low wages because they have been unable to find full times. And part-times usually pay low per hour as it is

If ur working less than 30 hours a week on a low hourly wage... Hiw can that be a good thing?

Personally ive chosen to temporarily take tuesdays off work to relax and sometimes volunteer with things cuz i still live with my parents and my boss was ok with it. We work 9h a day so 4 days a week gives me 36 hours. Thats more hours than most part-time jobs and i make $14/h while minimum wage is $11/h so my income is probably average by part-time standards

After taxes and EI desuctions im only taking home $400/week or $1600 a month!!!!

Now immagine someone in a part-time working less hours thag unlike me, doesnt live with their parents and has real bills to pay!!!! You honestly think its good American companies are hiring so many ppl part-time????

Obama care either needs to be modified or it needs to go. I get there was good intentions behind it but its backfiring in too many ways and doing more harm than good. In fact according to pools, less than hal of Americans actually support it

Then why do European governments actually support part time working?

In the end, you get a better productivity, more jobs and a happier workforce. The average hours worked here is 28, and it doesn't hurt the economy at all. Other great economies like Switzerland and Norway also have a government that supports part time working.