Daily Economy Thread

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

My Country Canada is far more dependant on the US than any European Country. 75% of our exports go to the US... Yet we survived the recession more stable than most of the Developed world.

The Canadian banking system didn't have the wide spread corruption and ethics problems that the U.S. has.

 

The US was a trigger... But Europe had serious imbalances themselves. If it wasnt the US triggering the downturn it would of been something else.

Plus ppl say it was "lack of regulation" but if anything Government meddling made the speculation worse. The Government started that dumb program with Fanie Mae and Freddie mac to ensure mortages from ppl that normally could never get mortgages

There were cases of predetory lending as well. A lot of marginal income households were sold variable rate homeloans with the beleif they could afford it, and the rates would never go up. Over nite they did, and many well intentioned people lost their homes becasue their payment doubled or tripled and the banks forclosed.

 

The Government encouraged bad mortgages the private sector alone never would of taken those risks

Yeah, they 'guarenteed' the banks would get their money from the gov. in case of default. This lead to many banks making bad loans and not really caring about the risk.

[Economy 52,861]

The Canadian banking system didn't have the wide spread corruption and ethics problems that the U.S. has.

There were cases of predetory lending as well. A lot of marginal income households were sold variable rate homeloans with the beleif they could afford it, and the rates would never go up. Over nite they did, and many well intentioned people lost their homes becasue their payment doubled or tripled and the banks forclosed.

Yeah, they 'guarenteed' the banks would get their money from the gov. in case of default. This lead to many banks making bad loans and not really caring about the risk.

all on point.

With the US... Ppl blamed it on lack of regulation... But i dont think Capitalism was the true issue

The Government forced real-estate one way with their policies... And banks were put in a hard positiom because if they did not give those loans they would loose clients to those who did make those loans. And since they were "ensured" banks took the risk

You have to remember that the Government is the most powerful entity. The Government is like the parent private companies are the children that take what they are given and have to obey as well (regulation and law)

The Government fed the private sector too much and spoiled them and the result was rotten Corporations

I still blame the US Government more than the Provate Sector because had it been a free market with no intervention... Regardless of their "greed" the natural market would of prevented this because under normal circumstances without that insurance banks would never take such risks unless they are totally nuts

[Luc 4,776]

all on point.

With the US... Ppl blamed it on lack of regulation... But i dont think Capitalism was the true issue

The Government forced real-estate one way with their policies... And banks were put in a hard positiom because if they did not give those loans they would loose clients to those who did make those loans. And since they were "ensured" banks took the risk

You have to remember that the Government is the most powerful entity. The Government is like the parent private companies are the children that take what they are given and have to obey as well (regulation and law)

The Government fed the private sector too much and spoiled them and the result was rotten Corporations

I still blame the US Government more than the Provate Sector because had it been a free market with no intervention... Regardless of their "greed" the natural market would of prevented this because under normal circumstances without that insurance banks would never take such risks unless they are totally nuts

But the US is already quite free for businesses. And lack of regulation doesn't work. Compare the American meat industry to the European.

[Economy 52,861]

But the US is already quite free for businesses. And lack of regulation doesn't work. Compare the American meat industry to the European.

the US is not as free as it used to be...

Also meat is a differentt situation. Its very dangerous to people if not properly taken care of. It should be well regulated. Healthcare and some other stuff should be as well

Im talking about business operations in general

[Luc 4,776]

the US is not as free as it used to be...

Also meat is a differentt situation. Its very dangerous to people if not properly taken care of. It should be well regulated. Healthcare and some other stuff should be as well

Im talking about business operations in general

I'm talking about the situation of farm animals in the US, Mexico and Argentina. It's terrible. That's what happens when there's not enough rules.

There should be enough rules to protect workers, the environment and animals. If you don't have that, you'll become like China. High economic growth, but the environment is a disaster and the amount of workhours for the lower class is terrible.

[Economy 52,861]

I'm talking about the situation of farm animals in the US, Mexico and Argentina. It's terrible. That's what happens when there's not enough rules.

There should be enough rules to protect workers, the environment and animals. If you don't have that, you'll become like China. High economic growth, but the environment is a disaster and the amount of workhours for the lower class is terrible.

well i never suggested going to the extreme of China...

As ive mentioned many times before... I dont believe in Capitalism to a total extreme... Theres a certain line i dont think is worth crossing. But were no where near that line. Most Countries are more socialist than optimal i think

And China is still a poor Country despite improvements... In a wealthy Country companies could never take advantage of workers to that level cuz competion wouldnt allow it

Thing is, a strong economy that forces wage competition and good treatment of employees is often more effective in helping the middle class or even poor people than a weak economy where u regulate everything to try to prevent exploitation

Fact is, the middle class always suffers the most when the economy is weak because businesses cost cut by firing employees and because the labor market isnt competitive they can get away with cutting or even freezing wages... Regulation wont prevent that.

What u need to shoot for is economic growth. And yes some regulations are good but be smart about it. Dont just start throwing a bunch of taxes and rules and hope that will take care of income gaps and exploitation :shrug:

[Luc 4,776]

well i never suggested going to the extreme of China...

As ive mentioned many times before... I dont believe in Capitalism to a total extreme... Theres a certain line i dont think is worth crossing. But were no where near that line. Most Countries are more socialist than optimal i think

And China is still a poor Country despite improvements... In a wealthy Country companies could never take advantage of workers to that level cuz competion wouldnt allow it

Thing is, a strong economy that forces wage competition and good treatment of employees is often more effective in helping the middle class or even poor people than a weak economy where u regulate everything to try to prevent exploitation

Fact is, the middle class always suffers the most when the economy is weak because businesses cost cut by firing employees and because the labor market isnt competitive they can get away with cutting or even freezing wages... Regulation wont prevent that.

What u need to shoot for is economic growth. And yes some regulations are good but be smart about it. Dont just start throwing a bunch of taxes and rules and hope that will take care of income gaps and exploitation

I agree.

 

I think that in Europe there's a bit too many rules. If you're sick here for 2 years you'll still get paid they want to change it to 1 year now.

[Economy 52,861]

I agree.

 

I think that in Europe there's a bit too many rules. If you're sick here for 2 years you'll still get paid they want to change it to 1 year now.

wow

 

here in Canada you only get payed from the company if it was an accident that was clearly the companies fault for not implementing proper safety procedures...

 

if u just get an illness or the accident was your fault then companies dont pay you anything. Although you can get some money from the Government for disability

 

Of course when it comes to socialist ideas... my Province (Ontario) just keeps adding on to it... So it wouldnt surprise me i the rules in my Province go way above and beyond what the Federal Government requires.

 

Here in Ontario if a company above a certain size lays off more than a certain number of workers... they have to give 16 weeks severance pay, thats 4 months

 

No wonder Alberta and Western Canada forms more Corporations than Eastern Canada. PPL say its cause Western Canada has more natural resources, but seriously, Eastern Canadas floppy economic policies that drive businesses away arent helping

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

I agree.

 

I think that in Europe there's a bit too many rules. If you're sick here for 2 years you'll still get paid they want to change it to 1 year now.

Socialism...In the U.S. sick pay depends on the company you work for and what insurance you have.

Some jobs or companies will fire you if your sick for too long.

[Luc 4,776]

Socialism...In the U.S. sick pay depends on the company you work for and what insurance you have.

Some jobs or companies will fire you if your sick for too long.

Yeah, my mom's job is to fire people and I heard her once saying that she's going to fire somebody for being sick for 18 months...

 

And if you get fired here you get such a large amount of money it's ridiculous. If you worked somewhere for 10 years for €2000 a month, you get €25000 when you're fired. And that's from the company, it doesn't include what the government and your labor union gives you in the form of welfare.

[Economy 52,861]

Yeah, my mom's job is to fire people and I heard her once saying that she's going to fire somebody for being sick for 18 months...

 

And if you get fired here you get such a large amount of money it's ridiculous. If you worked somewhere for 10 years for €2000 a month, you get €25000 when you're fired. And that's from the company, it doesn't include what the government and your labor union gives you in the form of welfare.

thats over 1 year of severance pay

 

and i thought 16 weeks in Ontario was bad

 

what about regular people that havent been working over 10 years?

[Luc 4,776]

thats over 1 year of severance pay

and i thought 16 weeks in Ontario was bad

what about regular people that havent been working over 10 years?

It depends on how long you work somewhere and what your income was... for 25 years €2000 a month it's €50000. If you earned €5000 a month and worked there 30 years you get €187500. I believe they're putting a max of like €100000 later this year though.

I don't get what you mean with regular workers... like flexible workers or something?

Can't believe my country is still such a competitive economy with so many big multinationals (Royal Dutch Shell, KLM, IKEA, AkzoNobel, Heineken, Unilever).

[Economy 52,861]

It depends on how long you work somewhere and what your income was... for 25 years €2000 a month it's €50000. If you earned €5000 a month and worked there 30 years you get €187500. I believe they're putting a max of like €100000 later this year though.

I don't get what you mean with regular workers... like flexible workers or something?

Can't believe my country is still such a competitive economy with so many big multinationals (Royal Dutch Shell, KLM, IKEA, AkzoNobel, Heineken, Unilever).

ppl that are not in union, havent been working in the same place for very long etc etc etc

 

basically people that just have a job. Nothing special about how long they been there or anything

 

Normally... if you get layed off, here the norm is only 2 weeks severance pay. its only more if...

 

#1 your in a union

#2 youve been working at the same place a long time (not sure how long)

#3 if a large company lays off many workers at once (like target has to give 16 weeks to the 17,500 employees that are being layed off)

[Luc 4,776]

It depends on circumstances. If you worked in the past 5 years for 4 years and went to your work in the past 36 weeks for 26 weeks and earned minimum wage (approx €22000 a year?) you'll get a lottle bit more than €1000 every 4 weeks for 11 months. We also have special social welfare for people who 'can't' work and such. Thrre's also extra money for if you have kids, if you're studying, the distance you have to travel to work, etc.

But our amazing infrastructjre, amazing soil (for plants), innovation, low corporate taxes, big port (Rotterdam port is the biggest in the western world), high population density and good education make us competitive anyways.

[TiphEret 1,320]

well i never suggested going to the extreme of China...

As ive mentioned many times before... I dont believe in Capitalism to a total extreme... Theres a certain line i dont think is worth crossing. But were no where near that line. Most Countries are more socialist than optimal i think

And China is still a poor Country despite improvements... In a wealthy Country companies could never take advantage of workers to that level cuz competion wouldnt allow it

Thing is, a strong economy that forces wage competition and good treatment of employees is often more effective in helping the middle class or even poor people than a weak economy where u regulate everything to try to prevent exploitation

Fact is, the middle class always suffers the most when the economy is weak because businesses cost cut by firing employees and because the labor market isnt competitive they can get away with cutting or even freezing wages... Regulation wont prevent that.

What u need to shoot for is economic growth. And yes some regulations are good but be smart about it. Dont just start throwing a bunch of taxes and rules and hope that will take care of income gaps and exploitation

 

As you say it I don't think the real issue is capitalism, as it's a system but to me, it seems that it lost it's goal. Now it's making money, for more money, for more money, even if it costs, lives, resources, and so on... It's weird.

 

Greece might exit the Eurozone, but Denmark might enter to avoid a recession like in Switzerland. Good tactic to make strong, small countries join tbh: devalue the euro so it's unsustainable for other countries.

 

What denmark is planning on entering the eurozone? Do you think it means the pay is gonna get lower... I wish not