Ministers refuse to perform gay weddings, claim they could face jail

[Morphine Prince 109,683]

Less than two weeks after a federal appeals court struck down Idaho’s ban on same-s-x marriage, two ministers in the northwestern Idaho city of Coeur d’Alene have filed a lawsuit claiming they could face up to 180 years in jail for refusing to perform a same-s-x wedding.

The lawsuit, filed Oct. 17 in federal trial court by the conservative Christian legal group Alliance Defending Freedom, stoked long-held fears among opponents of marriage equality.

“The day liberals promised would never come is already here,†Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council warned in a press release announcing the lawsuit, which was brought on behalf of Donald and Evelyn Knapp, two ordained ministers who own the Hitching Post Wedding Chapel.

Mike Huckabee, former presidential candidate and Southern Baptist minister, weighed in on Facebook: “Remember when same-s-x marriage activists used to claim that it would never infringe on other people’s religious beliefs? Well, that was a lie.â€

The governor of Idaho declared the ministers' case to be grounds for asking the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit to rehear the case on the state ban. “One of the key arguments against the Idaho Constitution’s defense of traditional marriage has been that redefining it to include same-s-x couples would not harm anyone. But the Hitching Post example shows the fallacy of that position,†Gov. Butch Otter ® said in a statement.

There is one major problem with all this outrage, according to city officials in Coeur d’Alene: The owners of the Hitching Post Wedding Chapel do not face arrest or fines or any other penalty for refusing to marry same-s-x couples.

The lawsuit argues that Coeur d’Alene’s non-discrimination ordinance -- which was passed last year and bars businesses and public accommodations from discriminating on the basis of s-xual orientation or gender identity -- will “unconstitutionally†force the Knapps to either “violate their religious convictions and ministerial vows†by performing same-s-x weddings or face jail time and fines. According to the suit, the city has “privately and publicly threatened to apply†the ordinance to the Hitching Post.

However, according to city officials and the lawsuit itself, the Hitching Post filed papers with the Idaho Secretary of State identifying itself as a religious corporation on Oct. 6, the day before the 9th Circuit struck down Idaho’s ban. The city’s ordinance explicitly states that religious corporations are exempt from the law.

The lawsuit came as a surprise to city officials, who described conversations with the Knapps up until last week as “cordial.â€

“We have never threatened them. We have never sent them a letter warning them. There was no ‘we’re going to throw you in jail’ kind of stuff. So we were mildly surprised, well, totally surprised by the lawsuit,†City Attorney Mike Gridley told The Huffington Post.

Moreover, while the lawsuit claims that the Knapps have already turned away multiple same-s-x couples, Gridley said that the city had received no complaints about the Hitching Post and had no idea who these couples might be.

How did the Knapps come up with that jaw-dropping figure of 180 years? According to the lawsuit, the city ordinance sets forth fines up to $1,000 and jail time up to 180 days for every day of a violation. The Knapps' complaint reasons that they "risk going to jail for 180 years and being fined $365,000" if they refuse to marry one couple for one year.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/25/gay-marriage-jail_n_6044214.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

[Bye 3,947]

Are churches forced to perform same s-x marriage tho?

[mcphee 1,790]

Oh I thought that churches etc. had the right to refuse?

[HANZ 4,380]

I don't think it's right to FORCE churchs to perform gay marriages if they don't want to

 

and I don't get the wish of gay people to get married in those places, imo as long as gay marriage is legal for the goverment it's enough for me

[swine killer 0]

They should not be forced to or refuse. They should just do it because it's 2014. Hello the clock is always ticking.

[Bye 3,947]

They should not be forced to or refuse. They should just do it because it's 2014. Hello the clock is always ticking.

but if in their core beliefs they're homophobic it's useless trying to force them to perform.

 

I hate churches like this honestly, but let them be, they're becoming irrelevant by the second anyway, as long as the state recognises gay marriages who needs religious organisations to recognise them?

[monstereo 1,232]

I don't get how this works. Did they call a random minister and be like 'We would like a gay wedding at your church.'?

I would be under the assumption that some don't, and I would call churches and ASK them about it.. and if they say no I would move on and try to find a church that's more lgbt-accepting. I don't see why it has to come to this.

 

We shouldn't force people to act against their beliefs. I would rather have a minister who's genuinely happy for my marriage instead of a minister who doesn't agree with it but is forced to do it.

 

But then again, I'm not religious nor am I sure if I want to get married so this isn't something I'm worrying about.

[Redstreak 6,653]

So they were never actually threatened, and were actually told multiple times that they were exempt from the ordinance. Seems to me the lawsuit was really to stir up fear among conservatives and try to get same s-x marriage banned again.

[swine killer 0]

but if in their core beliefs they're homophobic it's useless trying to force them to perform.

 

I hate churches like this honestly, but let them be, they're becoming irrelevant by the second anyway, as long as the state recognises gay marriages who needs religious organisations to recognise them?

 

True true. But the ones who needs religious organisations to recognise gay marriage is our fellow scared gay brothers and sisters and many individuals and kids who are in these organisations. It's just sad.

[pie-kun 1,765]

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/how_many_lies_is_the_religious_right_willing_to_tell_in_the_idaho_for_profit_wedding_chapel_story

 

Debunking of these claims

 

tl;dr: This is NOT a church. This is a private, for-profit business. The city has also stated they have not threatened owners with jail time or legal action of ANY kind.

 

This is just anti-gay groups once again trying to manipulate stories and trying to make it seem like Christians are under attack in America. 

[MahoganySnitch 67]

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/how_many_lies_is_the_religious_right_willing_to_tell_in_the_idaho_for_profit_wedding_chapel_story

 

Debunking of these claims

 

tl;dr: This is NOT a church. This is a private, for-profit business. The city has also stated they have not threatened owners with jail time or legal action of ANY kind.

 

This is just anti-gay groups once again trying to manipulate stories and trying to make it seem like Christians are under attack in America. 

 

Riling up staunch US conservatives up with baseless fears, just another day really. 

[RAMROD 117,117]

Propaganda to me. :ghostney:

[Melech 9,900]

I don't think it's right to FORCE churchs to perform gay marriages if they don't want to

 

and I don't get the wish of gay people to get married in those places, imo as long as gay marriage is legal for the goverment it's enough for me

because gays can also believe in god ?!