Missouri chaos continues post-Michael Brown's death

[norcalmonster 0]

So, you're racist?

 

Race and racism is tricky. Like I said, I don't think of myself as "a racist", but, being white, I inherently have prejudiced thoughts and stereotypes against people of color drilled into my mindset as a default part of my identity as a white person.  I don't hold conscious prejudices against any one group of people, and when I do notice intentional OR unconscious racist actions or beliefs in myself or others, I usually speak up and call it out. But, I still have lots of racist ideas about people of color, specifically black people, engrained into my default perspective as a white American simply because of the history of how people of color have been viewed and treated in this country.

[Shadow 6,697]

I think very few people have been keeping an open mind, from both sides.

What Brown did before he was shot was disgusting and should have been punished. The fact that the officer put multiple bullets in him (I believe the report said he was shot 6 times...? Just caught a glimpse of the autopsy report on the news it at the gym today) is unprofessional and inexcusable.

Brown should be held accountable for the cigars he stole and his assault on the police officer. He also should have been arrested for violence against a police officer.

But death?

Being shot, fatally, while in a non-threatening position is not appropriate. Had the cop shot him while he was being attacked I'd probably be more willing to side with the cop, but Brown was shot and killed while he was unarmed and with his hands in the air. The police officer overreacted and was in the wrong.

I think the people calling this 18 year old thief a "kid" and ignoring his actions are being ignorant, and anyone saying he deserved what he got need to think about what is considered appropriate conduct by our police force.

EDIT: People need to hop off Allison's D.

I've met her in person and she's one of the sweetest girls you'll ever come across.

She's not racist, and she's not being insensitive.

She supports peaceful protesting, but disagrees with the looters taking advantage of the situation.

She thinks Michael Brown's actions before his murder were wrong and criminal (which, they were), and also believes that the officer should be held accountable and punished for the murder if the investigation reveals him to be guilty (which, he should).

There are two sides to this story, and there would be no story if only one side was completely right. We need to acknowledge this. Choosing a side does not mean you have to see everything about the opposition in a negative or "wrong" light.

Valid points, Kayla. A great way to keep an open mind is to try empathizing with both sides of this issue. Imagine what it would like to be a cop in that neighborhood and then imagine being a young black man walking down a street close to home.

If he was indeed the man in the video who robbed the store, he should have been brought to justice. Yet, there has to be a way to avoid the amount of force taken here. Instead of demeaning police officers or minorities, communication is needed for a resolution to stop these things from happening in the future.

I know police have a number of ways to disable a suspect that are nonlethal. I think if that was used here instead if lethal force, the 18 year old would still be alive and this whole mess could have been avoided.

However, I do agree with your sentiments and in defense of Allison, that folks with similar views should be respected to speak their mind without being bullied or hounded. The same applies everyone in this thread.

[No Angel 128]

The whole situation causes me to feel sad, angry, overwhelmed, and some emotions I feel I don't have words for.  I am a small, unassuming, white woman.  I will never be able to truly understand the complete dehumanization of black life and degradation of black spirit by mainstream society beyond a concept.  But, situations like these do tend to give me flashes of just a tiny bit of the visceral pain I imagine black Americans are burdened with every day of their life, simply for existing. 

 

I do not identify as a racist person, but I certainly have racists thoughts flying through my brain every single day.  To be a white person in America means to have hundreds of years of dehumanizing beliefs about black people fundamentally weaved into my default, unconscious mindset of experiencing every day life, whether the situation immediately seems "race-related" or not. (Hint: EVERYTHING in America is race-related....)  And that's just a reality of the white collective consciousness, whether we like it or not. And until enough white people stand up and DEMAND and FIGHT that we begin, collectively, to wake up to that fact and actively work against it, it will stay the same.

 

There are definitely reasons to be upset over looting and vandalizing, but the vigor in which many (not all) people speaking out against those activities express their upset or anger concerns me.  Property damage seems much more personally hurtful/offensive to many folks than the actual loss of a human being's life. Again.... complete degradation of black life and existence.

 

And, frankly, at this point in history, I think a violent uprising is becoming quickly inevitable, and, unfortunately, necessary.  The aggression in Ferguson is not simply for Michael Brown's life.  It is an inevitable expression of anger after HUNDREDS of years black people being told they are literally sub-human.  Folks say we don't have slavery and Jim Crow anymore so racism isn't a problem, but if an absence of literally the most disgusting possible forms of dehumanization are the only evidence we have of living in racial harmony, we have a looonnnnnnggggg way to go.  Black anger is never justifiable to mainstream America, and it's always just a version of whites getting uncomfortable with blacks getting too "uppity."  

 

The conversation around race and valuing human life needs to shift away from the white perspective and be dominated by black and brown voices. For the first time ever.  It is long past due for us to sit down, shut up, and listen without giving any commentary on people of color's actual every day lived experiences.  Violent revolution is probably necessary for that shift to actually happen, so that most white folks actually FEEL some of the pain people of color live with every day, and begin to see that institutionalized racism not only hurts POC, but ALL people.  It's sad that black and brown life isn't valued enough on its own to merit louder and more widespread white outrage, but we do tend to be a self-serving bunch, so if we see and feel the pain and how it affects us directly, that might be the turning point needed to really shift things in this country.

 

Just doing my best to stay positive, trust in the human spirit, and sending prayers/thoughts of safety to everyone in the Ferguson area, and all American people of color.

 

Not sure what kinds of response this post I'm about to write will get, but...

 

This is a post that I truly appreciate. I can't speak for anyone but myself when I explain my frustration and pure discourage whenever people try to undermine the feelings and emotions black people have when it comes to topics like this. It really boils my blood when I continuously try to explain why these things happen and why it's important to document this event. First of all, I value your post for a number of reasons. Though you admit to having your own prejudices about Black people, you're willing to admit what you feel should change and I agree with it all. So, thank you for taking the time out to write this. And I appreciate all of those who are in this thread genuinely concerned. 

 

You touched on so many things with this that I cannot even begin to explain eloquently without going into a rage. I would like to apologize to those who feel like I went "too hard" on this subject, but I can't help but rage when these events happen because it hits so close to home for me. As a Black male, I can't even fathom the discouraging thoughts that go through my head when I hear about another black person being killed and how people make fun of it and/or say "you're being too sensitive" when it could have easily been me, my brother, or a friend. I don't know whether or not there are any other Black people on this site who agree with me, but for once I would like for someone to actually be on my side and zip their mouths and listen to us. It seems as if you can never get a word in when the looting/aggression topic is being brought up.

 

In no way am I a White-hating Black guy, but it just blows my mind how there's some White people (Blacks, too, to an extent) out there that are willing to ignore the feelings some of us possess and completely undermine it all focusing on "what does rioting do?" It frustrates me when people talk over or for us like we don't have mouths of our own. Yes there are people taking advantage of this situation and acting like fools, us black folks see it, If you're watching CNN on television or the internet and you claim to not have seen it, you're lying. Will this help out in the long run? No, it's not good. It's ridiculous and reckless. But why are they doing it? These people are fed up. They're being put in a box. There's some black people being born to think that crime is the default-career. This is the real world, and a lot of Black kids are forced into it at an early age.

 

When they protest peacefully, they're not being listened to. They're just there fighting another useless uphill battle where they'll eventually tumble down from. Even when we're doing it peacefully, there's a bunch of articles or tv clips showing the negative side. It gives us the impression that we just can't win whatsoever. It's happened before and it will continue happening until people of all races come together and show solidarity. (And I truly love seeing so many people from different places come and show solidarity. It warms my heart) But there's so many people questioning other things, but never wondering why Black people have such pent-up anger when it comes to the world from our POV. Though the damage in Ferguson will cost tons, that pales in comparison to how people are feeling and the death of Brown. At times like this, it seems like no one is willing to give us a chance (or a platform) to speak without the risk of getting bashed or looked at as a complainer, so that's why this thread, my posts in particular, are so in-your-face. I apologize to the people in the past pages. I did not mean to come off as rude. It's just these topics make me too excited and I'll eventually regret them. In no way am I pleading to be your "Go-to Black guy for all Race-related issues" and I'm not trying to make people be Pro-Protestors of Ferguson.

 

I had to take a breather from my Twitter TL and GGD because it all got too overwhelming. I admit, I probably did go too strong on Allison M., but it's frustrating seeing people comfort her after getting a barrage of "mean" quotes talking about the police and race-related issues. It's fine if you want to side with the Ferguson Police, but when someone disagrees, they just do and you'll have to deal with it. That's life. That's what my family taught me growing up; if someone disagrees with you or tries to make you feel bad for what you are, just move on. I was never given a pity-party for being a black dude. I just grew up and realized how this world works, and most of the time It works against us, sadly. 

 

I'm just saying... It would just be nice for someone of a different race to just sit there and understand why these things happen and why us Black people (and other PoC) get upset with police and other racial issues. And I know there's a plethora of white people who understand and try to help, and I applaud them 100%, but there's times when it seems like even they aren't enough to combat the hate I see, and I think It's a personal issue a lot of us (myself included) need to work on. I still have a rough time taking in totally different opinions and accessing them properly without going to town, but I'm willing to sit and understand, so why can't other people do the same when I want to explode with a bunch of repressed emotions? Black guys have emotions, we aren't robots! Lmao.

 

I totally did not mean to spill my heart on you, Norcal, (Lol) but I just appreciate your post so much. This really made my night. Like I said in an earlier page, I wish I could put this much time and effort into my college papers. lol. Thank you, though. Your post made my night.

 

 

•â€¢Ã¢â‚¬¢Ã¢â‚¬¢Ã¢â‚¬¢Ã¢â‚¬¢

 

Sorry If I've offended anybody, though. Was never my intent. Though some of my long posts may suggest I'm a total asshole, I mean no harm whatsoever.  I hope this thread continues thriving with links/photos/videos... and of course OPINIONS(!!!!). G'night/g'mornin everybody. Have a good day/week; I'm gonna keep it cool and take a little break.

Edited August 19, 2014 by No Angel

[LadyCaligula 0]

I'm sorry no, when a Holocaust survivor gets arrested I stop being civil and quiet...to begin, thank God people are waking up to how corrupt Americas police force is, I could go on for hours about this but I'm going to keep it short. If they truly think that putting a 90 year old woman in prison for peacefully protest is going to help in any mater, they are mistaking, to add on to this, she escaped the Holocaust in the 1940's, half of her family were killed in the gas chambers in Auschwitz in Poland. The fact that she is still here and spreading the message of freedom. I thought Nazis fell in the 45'... I guess not. It's a damn shame.

 

If you can't see through the propaganda in this I feel sorry for you. She used her status as a survivor of the holocaust because she knew it would draw attention. These people are making a mess out of an American city, illegally protesting. YOU CANNOT PROTEST IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUSY STREET! They want order restored in this city, you cannot interfere with the lives of an entire city to protest. Generally a permit is needed when a protest of this size occurs. You cannot protest in an area that puts anyone in danger, i.e. a street. People are trying to make a martyr of this kid and themselves and using the police to perpetuate their propaganda that this is a racist city. Turns out, half of the officers are black. Logic.

[LadyCaligula 0]

I'm being unfair? LOL OKAY. You clearly weren't here when i had 7 people attacking me calling me racist.

Nobody in this thread is "keeping an open mind". And all of the "news" and articles in this thread are completely biased.

You saying this thread is "keeping an open mind" is truly laughable.

You are right. Any rational thought that this may have nothing to do with race or that the kid was actually a thug is immediately shot down. People in our generation live to talk about social justice issues and martyr every black kid killed at any chance they get. Half of the police officers in this town are black! That isnt likely in a racist town...no town is completely racist... What is happening now is out of control and needs to be stopped. Point blank. 

[LadyCaligula 0]

MORE TEARGAS, SMOKE, AND CHAOS ENSUES. PROTESTORS (KIDS INCLUDED) HIT WITH TEAR GAS.

 

CHECK OUT THE LIVE STREAM IN THE OP TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.

 

CURFEW IS AT MIDNIGHT. POLICE ARE FORCING THOSE OUT AT 10PM.

 

AUTOPSY #1 INFORMATION

[Contains graphic information]

 

 

[warning]New autopsy shows he was shot about six times, twice in the head and four times in the arm... most likely from afar like some stories suggested. Says FDP could have told the public this information on day #1, but refused to.[/warning]

 

What's going on tonight in Ferguson? This:

 

posting things like thsi are nothing more than propaganda. this likely isn't true. come on....

[Kayla 7,595]

Valid points, Kayla. A great way to keep an open mind is to try empathizing with both sides of this issue. Imagine what it would like to be a cop in that neighborhood and then imagine being a young black man walking down a street close to home.

If he was indeed the man in the video who robbed the store, he should have been brought to justice. Yet, there has to be a way to avoid the amount of force taken here. Instead of demeaning police officers or minorities, communication is needed for a resolution to stop these things from happening in the future.

I know police have a number of ways to disable a suspect that are nonlethal. I think if that was used here instead if lethal force, the 18 year old would still be alive and this whole mess could have been avoided.

However, I do agree with your sentiments and in defense of Allison, that folks with similar views should be respected to speak their mind without being bullied or hounded. The same applies everyone in this thread.

 

 

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,456]

Because racial issues usually end up setting blacks and PC liberals against the majority of white Middle America. Fear of black crime drives whites to support a law and order agenda - support the police, support gun rights, etc. The same way equating poverty with blacks and portraying all whites as "privileged" leads whites to be stingy with welfare.

This is the main reason why America policies in these areas have evolved away from Canada in the last 50 years.

But, I wouldn't say that this issue is making people pro police or pro guns or anti black Americans by any means.

[Rome 176]

From an european point of view I don't really get what's happening there 

[MahoganySnitch 67]

If you can't see through the propaganda in this I feel sorry for you. She used her status as a survivor of the holocaust because she knew it would draw attention. These people are making a mess out of an American city, illegally protesting. YOU CANNOT PROTEST IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUSY STREET! They want order restored in this city, you cannot interfere with the lives of an entire city to protest. Generally a permit is needed when a protest of this size occurs. You cannot protest in an area that puts anyone in danger, i.e. a street. People are trying to make a martyr of this kid and themselves and using the police to perpetuate their propaganda that this is a racist city. Turns out, half of the officers are black. Logic.

Where are you getting that number from? I thought only 3 of the cops were Black in a community that is 67% Black. How is that half, unless he force only has 6 people?

[norcalmonster 0]

I totally did not mean to spill my heart on you, Norcal, (Lol) but I just appreciate your post so much. This really made my night. Like I said in an earlier page, I wish I could put this much time and effort into my college papers. lol. Thank you, though. Your post made my night.

 

[blubrryxkisses 15]

Not sure what kinds of response this post I'm about to write will get, but...

 

This is a post that I truly appreciate. I can't speak for anyone but myself when I explain my frustration and pure discourage whenever people try to undermine the feelings and emotions black people have when it comes to topics like this. It really boils my blood when I continuously try to explain why these things happen and why it's important to document this event. First of all, I value your post for a number of reasons. Though you admit to having your own prejudices about Black people, you're willing to admit what you feel should change and I agree with it all. So, thank you for taking the time out to write this. And I appreciate all of those who are in this thread genuinely concerned. 

 

You touched on so many things with this that I cannot even begin to explain eloquently without going into a rage. I would like to apologize to those who feel like I went "too hard" on this subject, but I can't help but rage when these events happen because it hits so close to home for me. As a Black male, I can't even fathom the discouraging thoughts that go through my head when I hear about another black person being killed and how people make fun of it and/or say "you're being too sensitive" when it could have easily been me, my brother, or a friend. I don't know whether or not there are any other Black people on this site who agree with me, but for once I would like for someone to actually be on my side and zip their mouths and listen to us. It seems as if you can never get a word in when the looting/aggression topic is being brought up.

 

In no way am I a White-hating Black guy, but it just blows my mind how there's some White people (Blacks, too, to an extent) out there that are willing to ignore the feelings some of us possess and completely undermine it all focusing on "what does rioting do?" It frustrates me when people talk over or for us like we don't have mouths of our own. Yes there are people taking advantage of this situation and acting like fools, us black folks see it, If you're watching CNN on television or the internet and you claim to not have seen it, you're lying. Will this help out in the long run? No, it's not good. It's ridiculous and reckless. But why are they doing it? These people are fed up. They're being put in a box. There's some black people being born to think that crime is the default-career. This is the real world, and a lot of Black kids are forced into it at an early age.

 

When they protest peacefully, they're not being listened to. They're just there fighting another useless uphill battle where they'll eventually tumble down from. Even when we're doing it peacefully, there's a bunch of articles or tv clips showing the negative side. It gives us the impression that we just can't win whatsoever. It's happened before and it will continue happening until people of all races come together and show solidarity. (And I truly love seeing so many people from different places come and show solidarity. It warms my heart) But there's so many people questioning other things, but never wondering why Black people have such pent-up anger when it comes to the world from our POV. Though the damage in Ferguson will cost tons, that pales in comparison to how people are feeling and the death of Brown. At times like this, it seems like no one is willing to give us a chance (or a platform) to speak without the risk of getting bashed or looked at as a complainer, so that's why this thread, my posts in particular, are so in-your-face. I apologize to the people in the past pages. I did not mean to come off as rude. It's just these topics make me too excited and I'll eventually regret them. In no way am I pleading to be your "Go-to Black guy for all Race-related issues" and I'm not trying to make people be Pro-Protestors of Ferguson.

 

I had to take a breather from my Twitter TL and GGD because it all got too overwhelming. I admit, I probably did go too strong on Allison M., but it's frustrating seeing people comfort her after getting a barrage of "mean" quotes talking about the police and race-related issues. It's fine if you want to side with the Ferguson Police, but when someone disagrees, they just do and you'll have to deal with it. That's life. That's what my family taught me growing up; if someone disagrees with you or tries to make you feel bad for what you are, just move on. I was never given a pity-party for being a black dude. I just grew up and realized how this world works, and most of the time It works against us, sadly. 

 

I'm just saying... It would just be nice for someone of a different race to just sit there and understand why these things happen and why us Black people (and other PoC) get upset with police and other racial issues. And I know there's a plethora of white people who understand and try to help, and I applaud them 100%, but there's times when it seems like even they aren't enough to combat the hate I see, and I think It's a personal issue a lot of us (myself included) need to work on. I still have a rough time taking in totally different opinions and accessing them properly without going to town, but I'm willing to sit and understand, so why can't other people do the same when I want to explode with a bunch of repressed emotions? Black guys have emotions, we aren't robots! Lmao.

 

I totally did not mean to spill my heart on you, Norcal, (Lol) but I just appreciate your post so much. This really made my night. Like I said in an earlier page, I wish I could put this much time and effort into my college papers. lol. Thank you, though. Your post made my night.

 

 

•â€¢Ã¢â‚¬¢Ã¢â‚¬¢Ã¢â‚¬¢Ã¢â‚¬¢

 

Sorry If I've offended anybody, though. Was never my intent. Though some of my long posts may suggest I'm a total asshole, I mean no harm whatsoever.  I hope this thread continues thriving with links/photos/videos... and of course OPINIONS(!!!!). G'night/g'mornin everybody. Have a good day/week; I'm gonna keep it cool and take a little break.

 

This post was wonderful. Thank you. 

[craig 680]

But, I wouldn't say that this issue is making people pro police or pro guns or anti black Americans by any means.

It did in the 1960's-80s though. That's when many whites fled from inner city rioting and crime, and the criminal justice system got a lot more punitive.

If the root problem is white FEAR of young black men, responding with black anger and violence is the most counter-productive thing possible. Especially when that fear in many cases is rooted in lived experience and isn't something you can guilt away by hollering "racism."

[Whispering 18,865]

posting things like thsi are nothing more than propaganda. this likely isn't true. come on....

 

It's true, there is video evidence of the incident. Posting "things like this" is reporting facts, that actually happened.

 

By the way, only 5% of the Ferguson police force is Black. That's a long way from "half".  

[craig 680]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2014/08/19/chart-ferguson-white-flight/

Ferguson was 74% white in 1990, by 2010 it was down to 29%. That historical holdover is the main reason why the whites are the vast majority of the local police.