How Lady Gaga cemented herself as a legend with ARTPOP

[Tokyo Rose 1,475]

it seemed like you didn't get the point of her manipulating her music and imagery in a way that drew upon references from certain eras.

 

This is utter nonsense. Words are spoken, but nothing is said.

 

 

It seems like during this conversation you have blasted the idea that Gaga will be considered legendary because of her collaborations and reinterpretations of archetypes as weak, without seeming to recognise that she built her career from exploring and reinterpreting.

 

I don't care if Gaga will be considered legendary or not. I like her music and her as a human being.

 

Goodnight

[Bebe 17,094]

This is utter nonsense. Words are spoken, but nothing is said.

 

 

 

I don't care if Gaga will be considered legendary or not. I like her music and her as a human being.

 

Goodnight

 

Words are spoken to closed ears.

 

Your original comment left was "Collaborations do not a legend make". 

 

That implied to me that you haven't recognised that Lady Gaga has carefully selected who she collaborates with in order for her to achieve a particular sound and look she is aiming for.  So yes it seemed like you didn't get the point of her manipulating her music and imagery in a way that drew upon references from certain eras. It seemed like you haven't paid much attention to who she collaborates with and how. DURING EVERY ERA. She is a self defined "pop artist" the purpose on some level is to achieve a level of notoriety and fame. 

 

 

I love Gaga's music too. I think Gaga is an incredible human being with an amazing heart.

 

I find the way she has navigated her career to be interesting and I find her concept of this era to be extremely interesting in the way she is exploring very classical imagery and very modern imagery. Literally trying to imbed her image permanently in art. I find it interesting that she chose DJWS as lead producer, as well as her decisions to work with Madeon and Zedd (two up and coming producers) and Will.i.am and Rick Rubin (very established producers who have worked for big names).

I find it interesting to see her work with a range of artists from different artistic backgrounds to watch her play with the same concept in different ways. Her different portrayals of Venus has been one clear archetype of this era.

I find the impact of that, and what she is trying to achieve to be interesting discussion and I find the actual impact of her work to be interesting discussion. 

Good night :)

 

[Guest]

Ass licking doesn't make one a legend. End of story.

[djBuffoon 12,123]

You're kidding, right?

You can't be serious.

So you're saying she has become a legend because she has worked with more talented people than her?

Hoooold up one second. Gaga is as talented as just about anyone she has collaborated with, and she is only 28 years old. Whether or not you care for the current output is a different story.

Ass licking doesn't make one a legend.

Correct. And working with/learning from the best of various fields is a wise place to start. 

[Jenniferella 2,774]

I really don't think so

[Didymus 34,379]

Hoooold up one second. Gaga is as talented as just about anyone she has collaborated with, and she is only 28 years old. Whether or not you care for the current output is a different story.

 

My point (which probably wasn't clear enough) was that in the listed collaborations, Gaga had a very minor role, the creation being (except for the DWUW video probably) almost 100% being initiated by the other artists (especially the Abramovic, Koons and Wilson collaboration in which she had 0% creative input). This seems to imply that she cements herself as a legend by appearing in someone else's work without any creative input of her own, which I think is a very questionable statement ;)

[djBuffoon 12,123]

My point (which probably wasn't clear enough) was that in the listed collaborations, Gaga had a very minor role, the creation being (except for the DWUW video probably) almost 100% being initiated by the other artists (especially the Abramovic, Koons and Wilson collaboration in which she had 0% creative input). This seems to imply that she cements herself as a legend by appearing in someone else's work without any creative input of her own, which I think is a very questionable statement ;)

Ah I gotcha. Well, she'll achieve legendary status for a number of reasons, perhaps not these specific ones. Regardless of how much input she had/didn't have, I admire that she is willing to put her ego aside and throw her into these collaborations with masters of their craft. It speaks to her intelligence and ambition.

[Pop 4,541]

You forgot the biggest name... Marina Abramovic.

[holy scheisse 22,274]

Someone who seems to get what ARTPOP is all about!

inb4 the chart monsters start saying how this isn't anything significant because there aren't any number one singles this era. :megaflop:

 

ban the chart monsters

[COLONiCPRiNXESS 1]

I wouldn't call her a legend, but an icon.

However, there's much more shes done than collaborating with people thar gives her that title.

[_Lam 597]

The ignorance is this thread is incredible. 

 

The OP is 100% right.

What he wants to say is that Gaga, with all of her work so far and mostly ARTPOP, has collaborated with many famous artists and probably the biggest artists of our generation. Those artist's work, like Abramovic and Koons, will be remembered and pass the test of time. It's a fact. Jeff Koons's balloon dog is the most expensive work by a living artist sold at auction ? Gaga, by collaborating with him, uses references and works from Koons in her own work. That means that if Koons work passes the test of time, ARTPOP cover will also, because the cover is half Gaga, half Koons.

 

And it's already happening ! If you go on Koons wikipedia page, it's already written that he made the Koons ball for her ARTPOP cover and that she was referencing to him in her song Applause. Still don't get it ? That means that the reference and collaboration is already cementing it's way in the art and pop history. 50 years from now, when people will study Koons work, they will study ARTPOP cover. When students will do some research about him, they will find the collaboration with Gaga and also ARTPOP.

 

The same could be said about the Abramovic collaboration and many other work Gaga has done since the Fame.

Gaga is making art and pop collaborating. Warhol brought pop culture into the art culture, Gaga is using art culture (reference in the lyrics, collaboration, works of art in her music videos, channelling someone or something, etc.) in pop culture. 

 

With ARTPOP, she might not make pop history with her chart topping record breaking sales and numbers, that's what The Fame, TFM were about. Instead, with ARTPOP, she is cementing a place in the art history by collaborating with already-iconic artists. 

 

The only things I still don't get is the ARTPOP music. I don't think the music, as good as it is (and it's probably my favorite Gaga album), really reflects the art and pop collaboration, unlike the imagery of the album (videos, covers, photoshoots, performances, etc.)

[Didymus 34,379]

Ah I gotcha. Well, she'll achieve legendary status for a number of reasons, perhaps not these specific ones. Regardless of how much input she had/didn't have, I admire that she is willing to put her ego aside and throw her into these collaborations with masters of their craft. It speaks to her intelligence and ambition.

 

Absolutely, those collaborations were my favorite happenings this era But it makes me sort of sad that these genuine artistic moments get dragged into the whole "See? You don't see Katy Perry doing that, she is a legend!" game that is, frankly, so disrespectful for the collaborations themselves and all the people involved in them.

[tokyodisko 0]

This is contradictory. You think this makes her work memorable, but then you say that it is obscure and nobody knows the references

If it makes her memorable it makes her a legend. When people talk about Nathan Sawaya they will talk about his work with Lady Gaga at Hearst Castle. (Nathan Sawaya doesn't create custom pieces for most people) and people don't just film at Hearst Castle. In fact, when people mention the history of Hearst Castle Lady Gaga will come up as a piece of that history.

When people talk about Jeff Koons they will mention his work with Lady Gaga. (Jeff Koons doesn't just make statues of anybody)

 

When people talk about Terry Richardson they will mention his work with Lady Gaga. (He spends his life following Lady Gaga and she helped him kickstart his career.)

Why do people talk about Michael Jackson? Because he had such an impact on culture.

Why do people talk about Andy Warhol? ""

Why do people talk about Elvis? ""

Why do people talk about Beethoven? ""

Why do people talk about Nirvana?""

 

ect.

Memorable to a niche. You're not seeing the middle ground or bigger picture. 

But no, none of those things cemented Gaga as a legend, despite how great they were. 

[Bebe 17,094]

Memorable to a niche. You're not seeing the middle ground or bigger picture. 

But no, none of those things cemented Gaga as a legend, despite how great they were. 

No, I would argue you are not seeing the middle ground or middle picture. 

Gaga is now associated with some very iconic and legendary artists and works that will be talked about for generations.

Lady Gaga now has a history associated with Hearst Castle, Nathan Sawaya, Jeff Koons, Terry Richardson, Marina Abramovic Robert Wilson, Jacques-Louis David ect. 

When people study such figures, they will inevitably also end up studying Lady Gaga's work with them. She has imbedded herself in history. 

 

Before she made it so that you wouldn't be able to turn on the radio or pick up a newspaper without hearing/seeing her name. Now she has made it so that you can't study the most iconic famous artworks without hearing/seeing her name.

 

Absolutely, those collaborations were my favorite happenings this era But it makes me sort of sad that these genuine artistic moments get dragged into the whole "See? You don't see Katy Perry doing that, she is a legend!" game that is, frankly, so disrespectful for the collaborations themselves and all the people involved in them.

I don't think it is disrespectful to acknowledge what Gaga is doing

As for your comments about Gaga having no creative control over what she did with Bob Wilson and others, it seems like you haven't read her quotes about the experiences she had with these artists.

"I did this piece (in) London. Bob Wilson filmed it. I hung upside down for 45 minutes in this position. This was the first piece he allowed me to do myself. I'm discovering my passion in performance art is seance. Allowing old souls to pass through me. While I suffer for their art, and leave mine and my vanity behind. This is how I can be vehicle for my monsters all over the world."

 

"Instead of the painter painting 'me,' (like Warhol Printing Marilyn) I am painting (performing) the painting. I am not on the canvas I am part of it. This is ARTPOP."

[Wet Fire 7,512]

Ikr :gaga: