💔🏳️‍🌈🇩🇪Berlin pride: several injured, one dead after vehicle drove into crowd

[Delulu Rogers 7,664]

13 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Which, in relation to this specific attack - because you don't want to discuss the wider picture and just want to discuss this incident - is irrelevant. The attacker was a German citizen, not an immigrant. 
Stricter immigration & vetting wouldn't have changed a single thing here. 

But people with criminal pasts needing to have stricter sentences/be monitored more would, in this specific incident, have prevented the attack and that was one of my arguments in my earlier posts before you started quoting me. I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing on. 

[Bronco 25,129]

2 minutes ago, onTheBrink said:

This is a dangerous statement to make. They're surging not because of whatever bad apples we might be letting in, but because the section of the population that wants to scapegoat entire religions, motivated by racism, are being motivated to do so by propaganda that tars all Muslims with the same brush. Think it's really important to understand that difference. 

And when we sit here going "the entirity of islam and muslims are the issue" as multiple users are doing. 

You're literally doing the work for the AfD etc. And do you think they are better for gay people compared to the other religious right wing extremists simply because they are white?

There's literally no difference between the AfD and the islamic extremists on this issue. They both want us dead. And both try to do so regularly.

[Bronco 25,129]

3 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

But people with criminal pasts needing to have stricter sentences/be monitored more would, in this specific incident, have prevented the attack and that was one of my arguments in my earlier posts before you started quoting me. I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing on. 

I'm disagreeing with you repeatedly making this a cultural issue and actively trying to deflect and prevent recognition of the fact that this is a wider issue not linked to a singular ethnicity, race or religion. 

And I am also criticising you repeatedly using this attack to try and argue in favour of immigration restrictions despite knowing it has zero impact on this event. 

And I am questioning if you would be debating immigration controls in relation to this attack if it had been a white german perpetrator. 

[onTheBrink 1,316]

1 minute ago, Bronco said:

And when we sit here going "the entirity of islam and muslims are the issue" as multiple users are doing. 

You're literally doing the work for the AfD etc. And do you think they are better for gay people compared to the other religious right wing extremists simply because they are white?

There's literally no difference between the AfD and the islamic extremists on this issue. They both want us dead. And both try to do so regularly.

The history and politics of this decade is getting so dark and honestly I'm kinda scared for the 2030s. I thought everybody in the community understood the importance of protecting the minority coalition, but we seem to be heading down a slippery slope on this and it's honestly a bit shocking to me.

We don't sympathize with far right messaging. We don't allow them to scapegoat ANY minority group. Honestly can't believe this is starting to slip. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,118]

32 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

Are you okay? Where in any of my posts did I ever mention the work “Arab” or even a specific region of the world? And I know the majority of Muslims are not carrying out attacks. I never said otherwise. 

Regardless of if you think immigration is the reason for the increase in Islamic extremism in Europe or not does not negate the fact that there is indeed an increase. What do you suggest should be done to solve the issue? There will always be born and raised extremist but at least countries can control what they can by stricter vetting processes and better border control. 

The immigration crisis in Europe is unprecedented and it’s no wonder right wing parties are surging in the poll. Everything needs to be in moderation and that includes immigration. 

 

“Are you okay?” *proceeds to crash out*

But at least you’re conceding here that you’re making a largely vibes based argument. 

“What do you suggest we do?” I’d say, once again, scapegoating an entire ethnic group by blaming it on immigration from Arab countries, which you both say you are not doing and proceed to do *in the same post*, is surely not the answer. The only way that conclusion would be valid would be if the uptick in terrorism were correlated to an influx of immigrants from specific areas and outsized acts of terror from those immigrants, which, as I mentioned several posts ago, is not borne out by the data. So if the data doesn’t show that as the driver, why would you choose to focus on immigration as the root cause? 

As far as terrorism more broadly, you handle it through counterintelligence and intercepting acts before they’re committed, not by prematurely profiling entire ethnic groups and restricting them from coming into your country. 

Edited July 26 by Ladle Ghoulash

[Delulu Rogers 7,664]

2 minutes ago, onTheBrink said:

This is a dangerous statement to make. They're surging not because of whatever bad apples we might be letting in, but because the section of the population that wants to scapegoat all Muslims, motivated by racism, are being motivated to do so by propaganda that tars all Muslims with the same brush. Think it's really important to understand that difference. 

100% understood. Of course there are voters who are motivated by pure racism and bigotry. The flip side is there are many people as well that have always voted liberal who have turned to the right, including lgbtq ppl, POCs etc because they are tired of how out of hand migration has gotten in terms of strain on infrastructure, healthcare, safety, lack of integration, parallel societies, abuse of the system, laxed penalties for criminals etc. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,118]

58 minutes ago, Elohim said:

Oopsie daisy, some one just spat them facts, hope no one’s feeling was hurt by all the truth you are stating here, a bit overwhelming  

Ns, sister, but Israel isn’t exactly in the position to critique failure to live up to Western values, given the genocide and apartheid being carried out rn lol. You’d think Israelis, the descendants of a group that has been systematically othered for centuries, would be more cognizant of doing the same to other groups. And yet…

[Bronco 25,129]

9 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

100% understood. Of course there are voters who are motivated by pure racism and bigotry. The flip side is there are many people as well that have always voted liberal who have turned to the right, including lgbtq ppl, POCs etc because they are tired of how out of hand migration has gotten in terms of strain on infrastructure, healthcare, safety, lack of integration, parallel societies, abuse of the system, laxed penalties for criminals etc. 

And none of the issues you cite are in the position they are in because of immigration. 

Its because governments in Western nations have been stripmining the economy for immediate personal profit and then exporting the wealth making machinery to foreign nations where they can exploit slave labour.

Like take the UK for example. We aren't lax on criminals because of immigration. We're lax on criminals because we have an ageing and decaying prison estate and in the last 16 years have added a net total of 960 new cells. Its not immigration that caused the issue. Its deliberate managed decline by the state. 

And simple minded c*nts decided the solution was to blame it on anyone who looks different to them.

Edited July 26 by Bronco

[Bronco 25,129]

6 minutes ago, onTheBrink said:

The history and politics of this decade is getting so dark and honestly I'm kinda scared for the 2030s. I thought everybody in the community understood the importance of protecting the minority coalition, but we seem to be heading down a slippery slope on this and it's honestly a bit shocking to me.

They all want to be Ernst Rohm.

They think if I play nicely with the fascists they won't do anything to me. They actively choose to accept the supremacist arguments on the false belief it isnt talking about them. And they think by doing so, they'll have a great life and get all the blonde fascist twunks into their beds. 

Well newsflash. Rohm got killed as soon as he'd outlived his usefulness. 

[onTheBrink 1,316]

10 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

100% understood. Of course there are voters who are motivated by pure racism and bigotry. The flip side is there are many people as well that have always voted liberal who have turned to the right, including lgbtq ppl, POCs etc because they are tired of how out of hand migration has gotten in terms of strain on infrastructure, healthcare, safety, lack of integration, parallel societies, abuse of the system, laxed penalties for criminals etc. 

I'm sorry but I think you are treating their reasoning as too valid and giving them too much of your consideration and empathy. A line needs to be drawn at some point and you are allowing the slippery slope. Here in the UK, there is of course increased immigration and we have a shitty NHS. If you get into it, the reason for this shitty NHS is a lack of doctors, an ageing population and the increased demand of complex care. None of those are immigration related. And for every other reason you have listed, it will be the exact same.

Edited July 26 by onTheBrink

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,118]

17 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

strain on infrastructure, healthcare, safety, lack of integration, parallel societies, abuse of the system, laxed penalties for criminals etc. 

So you’d rather scapegoat immigrants (a thing you keep saying you’re not doing while obviously doing it) as the driving factor behind many complex issues instead of trying to just…solve those problems? Migrants are not single-handled straining the housing market in the UK, the housing market is struggling in large part due to underdevelopment. Why not propose building more housing in lieu of blaming migrants and refugees? Healthcare infrastructure strains due to increased demand, again, could be solved by allocating more money towards hiring doctors and nurses and staffing hospitals. Why blame migrants who pay into the tax system for utilizing health services their taxes pay for? 

Edited July 26 by Ladle Ghoulash

[onTheBrink 1,316]

8 minutes ago, Bronco said:

They all want to be Ernst Rohm.

They think if I play nicely with the fascists they won't do anything to me. They actively choose to accept the supremacist arguments on the false belief it isnt talking about them. And they think by doing so, they'll have a great life and get all the blonde fascist twunks into their beds. 

Well newsflash. Rohm got killed as soon as he'd outlived his usefulness. 

I used to really focus on the importance of playing Devil's Advocate in my politics but honestly as I'm getting older, the more I'm able to know where the line needs to be drawn and where my empathy/curiosity about the other side needs to stop.  I'm quite happy for my politics to be tribal and I'd recommend the same @Delulu Rogers. WE are your tribe, not them. These people will not extend your same empathy and curiosity when the focus turns to LGBTQ. You will be treated with inhumanity.

Edited July 26 by onTheBrink

[Erotica 34,929]

3 hours ago, Bronco said:

And which European & US values are these?

Are they the values of UK politicians actively trying to block Prides happening?

Or the values of UK politicians actively rolling back LGBT+ rights in public spaces?

Are they the values of Americans funding the kill the gays laws in Uganda? 

Are they the values of the current German Chancellor who opposed criminalising marital rape? Or who repeatedly links being gay to pedophillia? 

Like which values are you talking about? 

To name a few examples: LGBT rights (I don't agree with what's happening there of course), women's rights and not forcing them to cover themselves up with layers of black sheets, not brutally rape and assault young and elderly people and not resort to violence and vandalism as soon as someone criticize your beliefs.

I can elaborate and provide examples of those scenarios but I don't want to go off topic more.

[Bronco 25,129]

9 minutes ago, Erotica said:

To name a few examples: LGBT rights (I don't agree with what's happening there of course), women's rights and not forcing them to cover themselves up with layers of black sheets, not brutally rape and assault young and elderly people and not resort to violence and vandalism as soon as someone criticize your beliefs.

I can elaborate and provide examples of those scenarios but I don't want to go off topic more.

Nothing you've listed here is an inherently western value.

Every value you've listed here is something western evangelical christian society continues to oppose and actively seeks to persuade other westerners to join them in opposition.

And every negative action against these values you've described are replicated by westerners. 

So yeah. Try again. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,118]

2 hours ago, Erotica said:

To name a few examples: LGBT rights (I don't agree with what's happening there of course), women's rights and not forcing them to cover themselves up with layers of black sheets, not brutally rape and assault young and elderly people and not resort to violence and vandalism as soon as someone criticize your beliefs.

I can elaborate and provide examples of those scenarios but I don't want to go off topic more.

I mean, evangelicals and Hasidic Jews all basically hold the same fundamentalist beliefs as the ones you’ve mentioned, so not really sure why you’re singling out Islam here.

Edited July 27 by Ladle Ghoulash