Joanne

[imogen2133 336]

So at the time when Joanne came out it was marketed and touted as Gaga's most personal album and as the album that would give us a peek behind the Gaga "persona" and see her vulnerable side as Stefani behind all the outfits and wigs. So my question is what do we learn about Gaga on Joanne that we didn't already know? The closest we get to learning something new is on Diamond Heart with her connecting Joanne's death to her Dad being tough on her when she was growing up and her showing how it affected him. Also Grigio Girls being about Sonya and with Joanne, we honestly only really learn more about her from the title track sort of. There are lyrics abut her go-going days at 19 and about how much her Aunt meant to her but these are things Gaga had already talked about plenty of times in interviews prior to the album coming out. I mean there are personal songs like Diamond Heart, Joanne, Grigio Girls and Dancin' In Circles (I guess) but besides that I don't see how the other songs are personal to her and the lyrics are too generalized to be anyway. I also don't count songs like Perfect Illusion and Million Reasons being about Taylor because that is all speculation still and the lyrics on those songs are still too general anyway. Also the album is dedicated to her aunt but there is really only one song about her/dedicated to her on the album and if it is meant to be personal in the sense that her middle name is Joanne for the reasons I have already listed I don't really see that either. Overall I just don't see how it is supposedly her most personal album like it was marketed as and how many fans see it even now. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 45,742]

4 minutes ago, imogen2133 said:

Also the album is dedicated to her aunt but there is really only one song about her/dedicated to her on the album and if it is meant to be personal in the sense that her middle name is Joanne for the reasons I have already listed I don't really see that eithe

From the beginning of her career, Gaga made it very clear that she identified with Joanne and that her loss was very impactful on the family (one of her poems is featured in the album booklet for TF, Gaga and her team used to say a prayer that ended with her name before every show, and the date of her death is included in the Manifesto of Little Monsters). The way I understand how the album relates to her late aunt is that the trauma of the loss of Joanne from a lupus related flare triggered by sexual trauma made Gaga’s father incredibly protective of her to the point of being controlling/stifling at times.
 

Due to that association, Gaga’s self-identity, from a young age, likely became entangled with how her father saw his sister and much of what is dealt with on Joanne is using that emotional focal point as a way of both processing past traumas, but also contextualizing that side of her identity that is more grounded in her familial history as opposed to the parts of it that are related to the creation of her persona as “Lady Gaga.” 

[NemoMyName 1,951]

Juana

[Starmie25 22,144]

I don't think fans realise just how much the passing of Joanne had on Gaga's father, especially.

Gaga's dad never really moved on and tried his best to keep Joanne's memory alive constantly in the form of his restaurant and his own kids Stefani, minus the sister. 

That kind of behaviour may seem like a blessing, but it can really affect person identity.

Edited 8 hours ago by Starmie25

[gagzus 20,465]

You have to remember while we as fans know (or cared to research) about all the things she talks about on Joanne, the public barely knew and she was rebranding to focus on approachability because she’d became seen as this super out-there and unattainable she would go outside in outlandish outfits and basically have very visible wealth at every turn. Quiet Luxury was building up at the time in 2016. 

2016 was probably when a big shift happened in culture because Social Media became the norm for all generations, instagram became huge and became seen as a way to peak into the lives of celebrities, tumblr was at it’s peak for relatable people talking about their mental health and celebrities were still on Twitter tweeting about what sandwich they were about to make.

Mystique was dying and even now is still kind of dead, that’s also why she did ASIB because she got to play a humanised version of herself essentially (albeit not entirely) that was the turning point. We can say the Oscar’s tribute or Joanne or Jazz changed things for her but it was really ASIB. Suddenly people stopped talking about her outfits and started talking about her personal life more. Even if it was rumours.

Joanne’s death also had a profound impact on Joe, Gaga even said he was an overly protective father growing up and you can see when he had to leave the room in FiveFootTwo because the song had an effect on him. 
 

I’ve said it before in other threads but Joanne is her coming-of-age album, it’s ALL personal songs and her finding her way. Mayhem for example is her Womanhood album where she’s finally found her sound and voice. It feels like Joanne and Born This Way rolled into one.

Edited 8 hours ago by gagzus

[imogen2133 336]

29 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

From the beginning of her career, Gaga made it very clear that she identified with Joanne and that her loss was very impactful on the family (one of her poems is featured in the album booklet for TF, Gaga and her team used to say a prayer that ended with her name before every show, and the date of her death is included in the Manifesto of Little Monsters). The way I understand how the album relates to her late aunt is that the trauma of the loss of Joanne from a lupus related flare triggered by sexual trauma made Gaga’s father incredibly protective of her to the point of being controlling/stifling at times.
 

Due to that association, Gaga’s self-identity, from a young age, likely became entangled with how her father saw his sister and much of what is dealt with on Joanne is using that emotional focal point as a way of both processing past traumas, but also contextualizing that side of her identity that is more grounded in her familial history as opposed to the parts of it that are related to the creation of her persona as “Lady Gaga.” 

Yes this is my point and I know about all of that stuff like Gaga saying the prayer before the shows, the poetry being in the booklet and her dads restaurant being named after her. I also know that she was very important to Gaga and Gaga explained as such when she said she felt like she had 2 hearts and was spiritually connected to Joanne. And again that is my point we already learnt about all of that and Gaga's connection to Joanne before the album, the album itself doesn't tell us anything new about that relationship or about Joanne as a person. And what you said about it affecting her father and in turn Gaga is only really explored on Diamond Heart. I don't see how songs like Ayo, Dancin In Circles, Angel down, Hey Girl, Million Reasons, Sinners Prayer or Just Another Day really have to do with Gaga, her relationships, or her connection to Joanne.

Edited 8 hours ago by imogen2133

[imogen2133 336]

22 minutes ago, gagzus said:

You have to remember while we as fans know (or cared to research) about all the things she talks about on Joanne, the public barely knew and she was rebranding to focus on approachability because she’d became seen as this super out-there and unattainable she would go outside in outlandish outfits and basically have very visible wealth at every turn. Quiet Luxury was building up at the time in 2016. 

2016 was probably when a big shift happened in culture because Social Media became the norm for all generations, instagram became huge and became seen as a way to peak into the lives of celebrities, tumblr was at it’s peak for relatable people talking about their mental health and celebrities were still on Twitter tweeting about what sandwich they were about to make.

Mystique was dying and even now is still kind of dead, that’s also why she did ASIB because she got to play a humanised version of herself essentially (albeit not entirely) that was the turning point. We can say the Oscar’s tribute or Joanne or Jazz changed things for her but it was really ASIB. Suddenly people stopped talking about her outfits and started talking about her personal life more. Even if it was rumours.

Joanne’s death also had a profound impact on Joe, Gaga even said he was an overly protective father growing up and you can see when he had to leave the room in FiveFootTwo because the song had an effect on him. 
 

I’ve said it before in other threads but Joanne is her coming-of-age album, it’s ALL personal songs and her finding her way. Mayhem for example is her Womanhood album where she’s finally found her sound and voice. It feels like Joanne and Born This Way rolled into one.

I understand all of that but I don't see how the songs on Joanne are personal to her outside of the few I mentioned and how they are about her connection to Joanne besides the title track. Everything you said about culture shifting and Gaga's rebrand really taking off after ASIB is very true though and how social media shifted things.

Edited 8 hours ago by imogen2133

[Starmie25 22,144]

31 minutes ago, imogen2133 said:

Diamond Heart. I don't see how songs like Ayo, Dancin In Circles, Angel down, Hey Girl, Million Reasons, Sinners Prayer or Just Another Day really have to do with Gaga, her relationships, or her connection to Joanne.

I summon @PartySick

[Oriane 22,366]

Just like she said during the era and you all made fun of her for saying that: she's her father's daughter, her sister's sister, her friend's friend etc... She might not SAY things we didn't know but she SHOWS the kind of person she is in her personal life. Up until that point, a lot of her personal songs had that "Gaga" filter that didn't made them bad by any means but less relatable.

[Starmie25 22,144]

Regarding "Dancin In Circles", imma leave this here:

"See, if everything is sex
Except sex, which is power
You know power is just sex
You screw me and I'll screw you too" -

Janelle Monae

[ThisGuyTony 33,945]

She said Perfect Illusion was about social media instead of about Taylor Kinney 

[Oriane 22,366]

3 minutes ago, Starmie25 said:

I summon @PartySick

Dancin' in circles, Million Reasons and Just another day are about her relationships with men, which were influenced by her relationship with her father.

Sinner's Prayer is about her dad.

Hey Girl is about the way she treats female friendships.

[gagzus 20,465]

2 minutes ago, imogen2133 said:

I understand all of that but I don't see how the songs on Joanne are personal to her outside of the few I mentioned and how they are about her connection to Joanne besides the title track. Everything you said about culture shifting and Gaga's rebrand really taking off after ASIB is very true though and how social media shifted things.

I’m sure I said it to you like 3 times in another thread but Joanne is DEDICATED to Joanne it’s not about her. The title track is the only song about her. But here’s a breakdown of every song and how it‘a personal.

Diamond Heart - Is about her working as a GoGo dancer in NYC at 19

A-YO - is about her trying to prove her haters wrong after ARTPOP 

Joanne - Dedicated to her aunt and how she saw her father hurting as she grew up. Written as how she thinks her dad would speak to her if he saw her one last time.

John Wayne - about her always going back to men who are bad for her (like Judas)

Dancin in Circles - although about masturbation obviously, it’s about loneliness and chasing seretonin

Perfect Illusion - her realising the breakdown of her relationship 

Million Reasons - trying to hold onto said relationship (both about Taylor)

Sinners Prayer - is two-fold, dedicated to her sister but about her wanting a relationship with someone who takes her as she is flaws and all.

Come to Mama - her personal ethos about being a mother figure and wanting to “heal people” wanting to spread love. 

Hey Girl - about being pitted against other women constantly and coming together to not let misogyny get the better of them

Angel Down - her frustration with social and political situations in the world, at the title specifically about the shooting of black people in America. 

Grigio Girls - about Sonja and how her friends and her would have drinks and cry without her knowing because she was scared to lose her friend

Just Another Day - a resolution to the pain in the album, about her being happiest when she’s making music and dedicated to her New York “family” 

[Starmie25 22,144]

21 minutes ago, gagzus said:

I’m sure I said it to you like 3 times in another thread but Joanne is DEDICATED to Joanne it’s not about her. The title track is the only song about her. But here’s a breakdown of every song and how it‘a personal.

Diamond Heart - Is about her working as a GoGo dancer in NYC at 19

A-YO - is about her trying to prove her haters wrong after ARTPOP 

Joanne - Dedicated to her aunt and how she saw her father hurting as she grew up. Written as how she thinks her dad would speak to her if he saw her one last time.

John Wayne - about her always going back to men who are bad for her (like Judas)

Dancin in Circles - although about masturbation obviously, it’s about loneliness and chasing seretonin

Perfect Illusion - her realising the breakdown of her relationship 

Million Reasons - trying to hold onto said relationship (both about Taylor)

Sinners Prayer - is two-fold, dedicated to her sister but about her wanting a relationship with someone who takes her as she is flaws and all.

Come to Mama - her personal ethos about being a mother figure and wanting to “heal people” wanting to spread love. 

Hey Girl - about being pitted against other women constantly and coming together to not let misogyny get the better of them

Angel Down - her frustration with social and political situations in the world, at the title specifically about the shooting of black people in America. 

Grigio Girls - about Sonja and how her friends and her would have drinks and cry without her knowing because she was scared to lose her friend

Just Another Day - a resolution to the pain in the album, about her being happiest when she’s making music and dedicated to her New York “family” 

Get this pinned mods stat!

[Ashley 10,157]

Wait how do you not count Perfect Illusion and Million Reasons being about Taylor? Who else would they be about? Especially with the line “if you could find a dry way I’d forever be still” and the rumors of Taylor having a drinking problem.

42 minutes ago, Starmie25 said:

I don't think fans realise just how much the passing of Joanne had on Gaga's father, especially.

Gaga's dad never really moved on and tried his best to keep Joanne's memory alive constantly in the form of his restaurant and his own kids Stefani, minus the sister. 

Natali and Stefani actually both have Joanne as their middle name.