What is the concept of Mayhem?

[imogen2133 238]

43 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Authorial intent, while often relevant and interesting, isn’t the be-all and end-all, imo. Gaga is unique in that she often functions as both the artist and a critical interpreter of her own work, but I think focusing too strictly on her explicitly stated intent (or what I might characterize as “her own interpretation of her work”) can narrow the range of meanings available.

 

To me, the meaning of art tends to emerge through a kind of collaboration between artist and audience, rather than being solely “prescribed” by the artist.

 

What I find exciting about her work (and the work of many artists) is how it can be understood through a mix of the artist’s framing, shared cultural symbols, and the viewer’s own interpretive lens, rather than being fully resolved by what the artist has explicitly said about it. Of course interpretation needs to be grounded in what is found in the work and informed by the context in which it exists (sometimes including supplemental statements and analysis by the artist), but it also largely exists beyond that.

The artist’s scope alone, imo, will always be incomplete because no artist’s work exists in a vacuum and symbols, sounds, metaphors etc. used in any art necessarily have enough of a fixed or objective meaning for anyone to *definitely* dictate what the *sole* meaning of any work of art is, not even the artist. 
 

 

Well overall I do agree with this and obviously there are times when artists can misread their own work or have an intended meaning that doesn't allign with the lyrics or theme(like when Gaga tried to say that Perfect Illusion was about social media) but I'm just saying that I don't think reading a book studying camp would make me understand Mayhem any better even if it could give me an interesting perspective on the songs/album as a whole. What you said though about how interpretations outside of authorial intent need it have a basis in the work itself and it's context I myself have a few interpretations of some of Gaga's songs that don't come from things she has said in interviews or ever mentioned, like parts of Scheibe(mostly the first verse and parts of the chorus) I have read as being generally about feeling insecure and wanting to be independent without feeling the need to rely on others for a self of worthiness or validation(most likely in a relationship context) even though it is and Gaga said it is a female empowerment anthem about wanting to be strong without anything getting in your way. But even so I go with her intention first since she wrote it and looking at the song, it makes sense to read it that way which is why I look at that as the primary and overall meaning of the song outside of others interpretations. 

[imogen2133 238]

1 hour ago, gagacabana said:

Like Ladle said above, no artist's work exist in a vacuum, so in order to understand what Gaga means (what/where/how/whenever) it is necessary to do some research, even if just about her own personal life. That's also one of the reasons I'm so obsessed with her, and am on a sidequest to watch all the movies she's mentioned through interviews/etc, and listen to her favorite songs, etc etc. It's an endless fountain of art. Of course, that's on another level of my own hyperfocus (craziness) but you seem to be interested in her artistry as well, which is why I'm recommending Notes on Camp, a work Gaga herself has took as reference 

 

Fonte: Monoskop https://share.google/yZzURppqY4JODv695

It's just a refreshing reading regarding art history, culture and gender politics overall. If you love ARTPOP and Lady Gaga you're probably gonna love Sontag too

Well I do agree with basically all of this and yes I am quite obsessed with miss Ga and the meanings behind her work and I've been doing a slow deep dive for about a year now exploring her artistry and especially since I didn't understand it as well when I was younger but was still a fan. And I'm well aware that the context surrounding Gaga's life can add context to songs like knowing about her relationship with Luc can help inform songs like BR, You And I, I Like It Rough, Judas etc. Also that's one of the reasons I loved her so much when she first came onto the scene and what I thought set her apart from others like Katy Perry or Britney Spears was because she always had such strong artistic visuals and songs with meanings behind them.(and the fact that she wrote her own songs and was in control of mostly everything and not an industry puppet and because she had a unique perspective on her artistry and music in general) Also thanks for the recommendation now that you've explained it it sounds interesting, I'll be sure to check it out.  

Edited Saturday at 10:07 PM by imogen2133

[imogen2133 238]

1 hour ago, gagacabana said:

Like Ladle said above, no artist's work exist in a vacuum, so in order to understand what Gaga means (what/where/how/whenever) it is necessary to do some research, even if just about her own personal life. That's also one of the reasons I'm so obsessed with her, and am on a sidequest to watch all the movies she's mentioned through interviews/etc, and listen to her favorite songs, etc etc. It's an endless fountain of art. Of course, that's on another level of my own hyperfocus (craziness) but you seem to be interested in her artistry as well, which is why I'm recommending Notes on Camp, a work Gaga herself has took as reference 

 

Fonte: Monoskop https://share.google/yZzURppqY4JODv695

It's just a refreshing reading regarding art history, culture and gender politics overall. If you love ARTPOP and Lady Gaga you're probably gonna love Sontag too

Also the video you linked is interesting and ironically left me with more questions then answers. I was already aware from previous interviews that part of Gaga's fashion is to bemuse and make you ask questions through strong contrasting and over the top visuals but there must be answers to those questions. Like why did Gaga peel off each layer and end up in the bra and panty? I know Brandon said it was ironic since it is a fashion event and she ends up in no clothes but what is the intention behind the rest besides just over exaggeration and mismatched pieces? Could it not be argued that one of the most camp things Gaga could have done is show up in like jeans and a t-shirt since the point or norm of the event is to dress in over the top, theatrical and exaggerated outfits? Idk I personally have always preferred Nicolas work with Gaga over Brandon's because I feel like he gets Gaga's style more and has come up with more interesting, iconic looks but this is an interesting piece overall.

[gagzus 18,819]

On 4/2/2026 at 2:03 PM, imogen2133 said:

Well I will admit my personal bias towards the BTWB over the Mayhem Ball and I concede that parts of the BTWB could be more fleshed out or more connected to the overall story. I do think that most of it is well thought out with connecting to the songs being performed though. Like Government Hooker and her being the alien(in that costume) and flirting with the G.O.A.T guard, the FOHL/JD segment and it exploring Gaga's love for fashion and taking you through her career up to that point which makes sense especially with JD(the first big song of her career), the Americano/PF section with the meat and how it ties back to the meaning and gay marriage and Scheise at the end being Gaga and the dancers (being the aliens she birthed to spread her message) being her victory moment for defeating Mother G.O.A.T. But again some parts could fit better or have more things to connect it to the storyline(the Lovegame/Telephone part for example) but I will say I still understand what she was going for overall. I guess many parts of The Mayhem ball just have vague darker imagery like the skull, the skeletons, the opera theme, the ending where she is operated on etc. and I don't see how it ties into the album overall or it's themes. I had a similar issue with her street fashion this era since it is mostly just black outfits without much thematic coherency. It might just be something we have to agree to disagree on since I'm still not getting it but I hope I do one day.

If I remember rightly the “story” of the BTWB was as follows.

Set on GOAT, captured by the government, breaks free of the government and goes on the run, births a new race (the fans), takes over the planet bit by bit going to different “kingdoms” on the planet liberating people as anarchists and liberators, overthrows the government and kills Mother GOAT, heads to earth to spread the message of love and empowerment and integrate with the humans. 
 

Mayhem Ball is in simplistic form about Gaga (Mayhem/Lady in Red) chasing Stefani (Gaga) and essentially fighting for control. Basically Gaga having an internal monologue about wanting to be famous but also herself and then in the end they come together as one because she has accepted who she is now and is focusing on the happy side of things.

It’s heavily inspired by real Operas and Aria’s as well actually. 

[gagacabana 2,846]

6 hours ago, imogen2133 said:

what is the intention behind the rest besides just over exaggeration and mismatched pieces?

Camp is about this kind of questioning, really. The answer often being what you've found regarding your own initial doubts of Mayhem's concept: art is what it is. Everything else we think of it, even the very perceiving of it, is a byproduct of how society teaches us to see things, and read into them, etc. That's when "camp" comes up to make us question what is art, what is good art, and why is said art good, for example. It's all pretty philosophical besides bringing another broader discussion about culture and mass media and social problems etc etc.

So camp is about this joy of expecting-the-unexpected, this joy out of things being whatever else they first seemed to be, this joy of a flamboyant❓️ for the sake of being this❓️(weird, off-putting, different, queer)

[Ivy 13,427]

On 4/1/2026 at 8:59 AM, imogen2133 said:

and then The Mistress shows up again and they are on a boat for some reason (I truly don't know maybe they are learning to be together)

At the beginning of the tour I had conversation with someone who was talking about this part, and they described how the imagery is similar to the mythology of the river styx. I can't remember enough about it but maybe worth looking up

I also noticed similarity with the tarot card 6 of swords which the meaning seems to fit that part in the show imo

[imogen2133 238]

3 hours ago, gagacabana said:

Camp is about this kind of questioning, really. The answer often being what you've found regarding your own initial doubts of Mayhem's concept: art is what it is. Everything else we think of it, even the very perceiving of it, is a byproduct of how society teaches us to see things, and read into them, etc. That's when "camp" comes up to make us question what is art, what is good art, and why is said art good, for example. It's all pretty philosophical besides bringing another broader discussion about culture and mass media and social problems etc etc.

So camp is about this joy of expecting-the-unexpected, this joy out of things being whatever else they first seemed to be, this joy of a flamboyant❓️ for the sake of being this❓️(weird, off-putting, different, queer)

Well I'm aware that camp is usually about challenging societal norms especially around notions of conventional art and beauty but I'm asking about the specific intention of the Met Gala piece Gaga and Brandon did. You can have camp fashion/art that is the opposite of conventional and is challenging but what is the purpose overall? I feel like with Gaga's pieces over the years they have meanings and a range of intentions (doing the unexpected, shock art, commentary on fame culture, being extensions of her music, defining her own style) but I feel like Gaga didn't do camp for the sake of camp or to specifically always "go against the grain" for the sake of being different or to challenge norms but to stand out as unique and with her own artistic ideas and intentions outside of that. I wanted some reason interviews from The Fame era recently and Gaga said that if she wore Avant Guard clothing it was not for the sake of being "edgy or the intention being Avant Guard" she said it was primarily a form of self expression and because of her love for that clothing style and theatre. Like how in the clip you linked Gaga said that there is an element of bemusement(or upset as she has said elsewhere before) it is to bring intrigue to her music and define her artistically. Also yes there are times where the intention was to challenge norms or as societal commentary but my point overall is that I think Gaga used camp in various ways that are not always how other people did it and in a way that was unique to her. I just want to know the intention behind the piece beyond the surface "camp for camp sake or because that is the theme of the Met Gala that year".

[Bronco 18,992]

3 hours ago, Ivy said:

At the beginning of the tour I had conversation with someone who was talking about this part, and they described how the imagery is similar to the mythology of the river styx. I can't remember enough about it but maybe worth looking up

I also noticed similarity with the tarot card 6 of swords which the meaning seems to fit that part in the show imo

Yeah that Million Reasons/Shallow section is heavily inspired by depictions of breaking free from hell in greek and roman mythology.

[zevthepaparazzo 1,853]

I thought each song was about love, just in different contexts and perspectives for each song

the only song that didn't really fit there was shadow of a man

and then obviously the sonic inspirations

[bxr 1,203]

7 hours ago, Ivy said:

At the beginning of the tour I had conversation with someone who was talking about this part, and they described how the imagery is similar to the mythology of the river styx. I can't remember enough about it but maybe worth looking up

I also noticed similarity with the tarot card 6 of swords which the meaning seems to fit that part in the show imo

3 hours ago, Bronco said:

Yeah that Million Reasons/Shallow section is heavily inspired by depictions of breaking free from hell in greek and roman mythology.

 

@Ladle Ghoulash had a really lucid interpretation of the Stygian influence earlier in the thread

 

On 3/31/2026 at 8:04 PM, bxr said:

This makes sense … especially the Dance or Die dichotomy (Diechotomy?); I still grapple with some of the tour narrative / details, but, out of curiosity, since you have a grasp, I’m wondering your take on the ballad segue into the piano segment—it feels akin to a River Styx transition, and the three songs (Million Reasons, Shallow (with a heavy iterative emphasis on the dirge feel), and DWAS) like a sonic Cerebrus, also that she adopts the mask and then returns it to the boat usher (psychopomp? captain?) during the transition felt significant in a way … but just curious … challenges feel mythological in a way and the River Styx (or, actually, most epic / hero journeys have a liminal river between “worlds”) is usually climactic in context

On 3/31/2026 at 8:24 PM, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I’ve always viewed the two characters in the show as being her embodying two opposed archetypes (being both Faust and the Devil in the Scheisse scene where she’s signing the contract, being both Nosferatu and Ruth in Act II), but the reference to Phantom of the Opera in Act IV is the one that stands out to me the most: Gaga as both Christine and the Phantom. So in the vein of that metaphor, this is part of where both of the characters begin to accept their relationship to each other (EtherealGa as a sort of muse, Mistress of Mayhem as a sadistic teacher/guide).

The mask moment is particularly interesting relative to the phantom’s iconic mask, but also given that, the moment that she dons it, it seems that the Mistress’ POV is revealed to her and that creates a sense of compassion in her for the Mistress (à la the birth of EtherealGa in the Disease video and her nascent attempt to “cure” some of the darkness/sadness in the Mistress), which ultimately leads to her choosing to, once and for all, reconcile with that side of herself after the catharsis/healing of the piano section in VIY. Crossing into the underworld/underbelly of the opera house (à la a journey across the River Styx) in order to achieve deeper, personal enlightenment and integration. 

The semiotics of the show are layered and, once you get into the weeds, maybe not as straightforward as the show is on the surface, but that’s what I think is so great about it: the macro level narrative is essentially Jungian shadow work, whereas the minute details lean into a hybrid of pop, classical, theatrical, and meta references that give each moment its own dramaturgical heft or potential.

On 3/31/2026 at 9:50 PM, bxr said:

Impeccable.

The story tapestry is so interwoven, the precision to the panorama (The Faust, Nosferatu, and Phantom ) … the mask moment almost echoes the Eleusinian Mysteries (or not, tbh), if EtherealGa (Persephone)’s reconciliation with the Mistress (Demeter, as much a teacher/guide as maternal guardian) takes the POV of Persephone as this dual deity who is, at once, Queen of the Underworld (by abduction) and the daughter of the Goddess of Fertility … something about how you explore the archetypal synthesis or sequence felt like that conflicted inheritance coming into resolution—and the paradigmatic / iconic mask as inheriting the POV or shadow consciousness … a whole revelation

Edited Sunday at 02:11 PM by bxr

[Ivy 13,427]

2 hours ago, bxr said:

 

@Ladle Ghoulash had a really lucid interpretation of the Stygian influence earlier in the thread

 

Thank you! I totally missed that part of the thread and it's so interesting to read about 

[gagacabana 2,846]

5 hours ago, imogen2133 said:

the intention behind the piece beyond the surface "camp for camp sake or because that is the theme of the Met Gala that year".

My personal interpretation is that the 16minute performance-art-transformation was like a russian doll, because when she first arrives with that giant pink dress you think "okay, extra" but then she reveals a black dress and it's like "wow ok it wasn't all, now that's a conventionally beautiful dress" and then surprisingly she takes it off to another pink dress so you're like "how is she even carrying that many heavy clothes?" And just when you think it'd be over, she's on her element: black nine inch heels, fishnets, bra and panties. Now that I've thought about it, it's fun how the first dress, a flamboyant pink, is Gaga, the second, black and neat, is Lady, the third, while the same flamboyant pink, is more Lady than Gaga, and the fourth outfit, black with glitter, is absolutely Gaga. 

[bxr 1,203]

5 hours ago, Ivy said:

Thank you! I totally missed that part of the thread and it's so interesting to read about 

You’re most welcome, glad it piqued interest—education is the motivation!

Brief footnote, something I missed earlier within the Eleusinian mythology, was a duality within Demeter’s daughters; the precursor to Persephone (also referred to as Kore, or “maiden”), was “the unnamable Despoina (the “Mistress” or “Matriarch” (literally “the mistress of the house”))” … Persephone (the maiden) was Demeter’s daughter with Zeus, and Despoina (the mistress) was Demeter’s daughter with Posiedon (God of the Sea) … so, almost quite literally, the maiden and the mistress as dichotomous twins—the journey develops! This makes sense from the POV of idenity inheritance and/or the chessboard’s two queens (daughters inheriting the realm from their mother, Demeter, the Goddess of Fertility; where before, I had only considered the Demeter and Persephone duality … but this is all just hypothetical, of course).

Also, not within the immediate Stygian scope, but more broadly, was this element of the Eleusinian ritual rites: “The high point of the celebration was ‘an ear of grain cut in silence,‘ which represented the force of the new life. The idea of immortality did not exist in the mysteries at the beginning, but the initiated believed that they would have a better fate in the underworld. Death remained a reality, but was also a new beginning, like the plant which grows from the buried seed.”—“ear of grain cut in silence” felt Blade of Grass adjacent within a capacity … albeit the album track not being directly featured in The Art of Personal Chaos

But, just a few neither here nor there footnotes for the reference radar

Edited Sunday at 10:08 PM by bxr