Why are all the pop girls silent?

[TimotheeChalamet 6,536]

31 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

Getting a powerful statement in front of millions of people is effective.

If she was the Pope 

[Bronco 16,926]

1 minute ago, TimotheeChalamet said:

If she was the Pope 

Madonna did it. 

In 1989 she fought to ensure all copies of Like a Prayer in the US came with safe sex literature in response to the ongoing AIDS crisis. 

People acting like celebrities, particularly artists & creatives, are voiceless and powerless need to study the history of the last century alone. 

This idea that we have to rely on politicians and popes is ahistorical and complete disinformation. They are the last people to help, because they will only help when they're at risk of losing their power. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 35,396]

9 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Madonna did it. 

In 1989 she fought to ensure all copies of Like a Prayer in the US came with safe sex literature in response to the ongoing AIDS crisis. 

People acting like celebrities, particularly artists & creatives, are voiceless and powerless need to study the history of the last century alone. 

This idea that we have to rely on politicians and popes is ahistorical and complete disinformation. They are the last people to help, because they will only help when they're at risk of losing their power. 

I’m not saying they don’t have power, but we also don’t live in the same media ecosystem as Madonna worked in the 1980s. In the era of centralized mass media/monoculture, Madonna had far more reach than the average pop star has in today’s fractured media ecosystem.
 

Not to mention the partisan echo chambers that make up most people’s algorithms dilutes the overall reach of a lot of political messaging. I think they certainly do have influence, but I just reject the premise that it’s make or break/would move the needle in the way some folks are implying. Symbolic/performative acts still matter, but I think their impact is overestimated by the stans who want their faves to speak out. 

Edited January 25 by Ladle Ghoulash

[River 121,722]

Check their management, the labels, they are all MAGA.

Every time u listen to Gaga, u give money to Interscope, Geffen and Universal... all MAGA.

But at the same time, they didn't give a f-ck about 30k dead Iranians.

It's all depends on how cool it is, how the fans will react, what the peers are doing.

 

Maybe it's time to stop relying on people who only smile at you because they want your money.. if u care about the ICE massacres,  YOU NEED TO SPEAK UP, U NEED TO GO OUTSIDE AND RIOT, NOT A CHEAP ASS CLASSLESS RICH CELEBRITIES.

[Bronco 16,926]

1 minute ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I’m not saying they don’t have power, but we also don’t live in the same media ecosystem as Madonna worked in the 1980s. In the era of centralized mass media/monoculture, Madonna had far more reach than the average pop star has in today’s fractured media ecosystem. Not to mention the partisan echo chambers that make up most people’s algorithms. I think they certainly do have influence, but I just reject the premise that it’s make or break/would move the needle in the way some folks are implying. 

The point is - people's algorithms are surpressing this. Because its easy to surpress random normal people with small followings on social media. 

Its a lot harder to surpress multiple large celebrity accounts because of the scale of the audience they have. 

And also. I've seen enough rightwing c*nts on this site in the last 2 years to know the echo chamber argument is false for this fanbase. 

I've seen folks support Trump. I've seen users share the most disgusting blatant racism accusing all arabs in the UK of child sex crimes. I've seen misogyny and every form of bigotry. 

The echo chamber doesn't exist. 

[LadyxGaGa 2,879]

simply put it doesn’t affect them. it doesn’t even touch them. they have schedules and their industries will protect them as long as they keep being subservient and silent 

[LadyxGaGa 2,879]

i agree with elsa as long as we stay silent we are complicit and if us peons with small to no followings can say **** our leaders they are failing us so can other much more affluent, richer, humans that have much closer proximity to make sure our president elect knows no matter what corner he turns no matter how many cronies he has there will be about 2 more people telling him making sure he doesn’t feel an iota of comfort EVER 

[Ladle Ghoulash 35,396]

10 minutes ago, Bronco said:

The point is - people's algorithms are surpressing this. Because its easy to surpress random normal people with small followings on social media. 

Its a lot harder to surpress multiple large celebrity accounts because of the scale of the audience they have. 

And also. I've seen enough rightwing c*nts on this site in the last 2 years to know the echo chamber argument is false for this fanbase. 

I've seen folks support Trump. I've seen users share the most disgusting blatant racism accusing all arabs in the UK of child sex crimes. I've seen misogyny and every form of bigotry. 

The echo chamber doesn't exist. 

This isn’t an algorithm based site, this is a general forum lol. I’m talking about the way that platforms like TikTok, IG, X etc. disseminate content and create more contained echo chambers. But I agree that multiple public figures standing in solidarity would at least have more impact in terms of visibility (though I do still question the efficacy of celebs as messengers in today’s cultural climate, given the “anti-elite” RW populist slant). 

That being said, I am heartened by the fact that folks in Minneapolis are showing up in massive numbers and making it clear this **** won’t stand in their city. 

Edited January 25 by Ladle Ghoulash

[Bronco 16,926]

2 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

This isn’t an algorithm based site, this is a general forum lol. I’m talking about the way that platforms like TikTok, IG, X etc. disseminate content and create more contained echo chambers. But I agree that multiple public figures standing in solidarity would at least have more impact in terms of visibility (though I do still question the efficacy of celebs as messengers in today’s cultural climate, given the “anti-elite” RW populist slant). 

That being said, I am heartened by the fact that folks in Minneapolis are showing up in massive numbers and making it clear this **** won’t stand in their city. 

No I get what you are saying.

But any fan who regularly interacts with Gaga content on those platforms gets the gaga tailored algorithm. 

And my point is that the fans aren't a monolith. And so long as they partake in the algorithm, the fanbase and the artist should ensure that that algorithm either challenges their worldview at best or forces them out and isolates the scum at minimum. 

And ultimately- algorithms etc shouldn't be a decider on whether or not you speak up. Morality should be. 

When smaller artists and independent artists put their career, income and visas at risk by speaking out. Bigger artists with a significantly safer economic backstop have zero excuse - especially when they built a career claiming their morales were opposed to this. 

Like even if we accept that celebs dont need to be on the frontline throwing bricks. We should be using the extrajudicial murders of peaceful bystanders as the litmus test for their morality. 

[TheMontebello 827]

They should unite and release a song about it. Or maybe that's a terrible idea? I don't know, but they should come together and position themselves.

[Ladle Ghoulash 35,396]

19 minutes ago, Bronco said:

No I get what you are saying.

But any fan who regularly interacts with Gaga content on those platforms gets the gaga tailored algorithm. 

And my point is that the fans aren't a monolith. And so long as they partake in the algorithm, the fanbase and the artist should ensure that that algorithm either challenges their worldview at best or forces them out and isolates the scum at minimum. 

And ultimately- algorithms etc shouldn't be a decider on whether or not you speak up. Morality should be. 

When smaller artists and independent artists put their career, income and visas at risk by speaking out. Bigger artists with a significantly safer economic backstop have zero excuse - especially when they built a career claiming their morales were opposed to this. 

Like even if we accept that celebs dont need to be on the frontline throwing bricks. We should be using the extrajudicial murders of peaceful bystanders as the litmus test for their morality. 

In all fairness, having interacted with some of Gaga’s RW fans on here, I’m not sure how moveable they are lmao. I don’t disagree on the question of morality, I’m just arguing based in broader political strategy. Someone in the vein of Rogan or Tim Dillon turning on ICE makes more waves and moves more people because they have more political capital with people who voted for or tacitly support Trump, whereas most pop girls really don’t.

I personally think, unfortunately, a lot of people have become very jaded against folks they view as the “liberal establishment” so I just don’t really see them as the most effective messengers on the frontlines, even if I do think them speaking up is the right thing to do on a purely human level. I also do think *some* (not all) folks online put pressure on and emphasize the positions of the wrong figures (pop stars) instead of applying it to people who can change policy.
 

I know pop stars *can* move public opinion which can indirectly effect the positions of members of Congress, but I think if more folks focused on protest, spamming their representative’s phone lines, threatening to support primary challengers etc. then the prospect of losing re-election would inspire them to change. I think we’re seeing a small taste of that with the Senate Dems re: ICE funding because many of these Dems realize that, if they don’t do what their base wants, they could absolutely lose a primary to a progressive challenger.

Put the fear of God in their hearts so they don’t keep funding a militarized goon squad and focus less on what XYZ pop star has to say about it. I’m not saying you can’t do both, I just think a lot of folks *aren’t* doing both because criticizing a pop star is easier than applying sustained political pressure on a representative to change policy. That’s a lesson millennials and Gen Z can learn from Boomers, imo. 

Maybe I’m also just a bit cynical about the efficacy of celebrity social media posts as the nexus of activism in general (as well as both the reliability of corporate and cultural based symbolic activism in general) that I would hope or perhaps rather the folks doing the work (à la community organizers like you cited in MLK Jr.) become the ones who galvanize the public because they’re the ones with the most genuine authority on the issue.

Edited January 25 by Ladle Ghoulash

[PEZ 6,481]

2 hours ago, Obobo said:

This energy should be placed on the people that can actually make change. Pop girls making statements is just performative at this point.

I largely agree with this and that a celeb saying something like "today we are all Minnesotans " would be lame and ineffective but at the same time I wish I saw more "signal boost"-y posts from people with large follower counts. Like if they could share "here's what the ACLU recommends if you want to video record ICE" or "here's a donation link to a local mutual aid group, they need money for hand warmers." I could actually use information like that, and act on it.

[Ladle Ghoulash 35,396]

3 minutes ago, PEZ said:

I largely agree with this and that a celeb saying something like "today we are all Minnesotans " would be lame and ineffective but at the same time I wish I saw more "signal boost"-y posts from people with large follower counts. Like if they could share "here's what the ACLU recommends if you want to video record ICE" or "here's a donation link to a local mutual aid group, they need money for hand warmers." I could actually use information like that, and act on it.

Yeah, signal boosting is probably the most effective type of messaging in this context for celebrities. Agreed. 

Edited January 25 by Ladle Ghoulash

[phantasmas 11,305]

for my own sanity i tend to focus more on those who DO speak up rather than  dont 

 Natalie Portman (not a pop girlie, i know) just spoke up about ice during a Variety interview 

Mark Ruffalo did the same on the red carpet recently 

[PartySick 166,771]

2 hours ago, Dojo said:

Gaga cares, just in different ways, not "social media" way, we don't know how she supports bts 

The most powerful tool she has is her platform and she isn't using it at all. 

"She might maybe be doing something behind the scenes" is a copout by coping stans who refuse to see her as an apathetic rich person  

She even lets her father get on national news and use her name for clout to spew alt-right talking points.

Love(d?) the girl but she ain't who she used to be.

Maybe if she wins a Grammy she'll say something like "immigrants deserve to live" between Michael praise phrases and all the Monsters will fawn over her as the "activist queen" they just know she is