Brigitte Bardot dies at 91

[Ladle Ghoulash 32,030]

2 minutes ago, gagzus said:

Oh absolutely, like even our queer ancestors had negative opinions of each other. A lot of old queer men were misogynistic, a lot of older trans people hated gay men, straight philosophers hated queer ones, white heroes like Churchill hated black and queer people it all just goes around and around. Yeah we’re not perfect but I definitely still think we should hold each other accountable for hypocrisy.

It’s how I feel about the founding fathers of the US, too. They had high minded ideals, sewed the seeds of the abolition of slavery and women’s suffrage into the rhetorical and theoretical framework of the US Constitution, however, many of them remained slave owners and allowed for the political oppression of women during their lifetimes. Two things can be true at once and I think people really seem to dislike that sometimes lmao 

[nATAH 52,314]

50 minutes ago, elijahfan said:

No one here is defending or condoning it, merely trying to explain what could lead someone to such opinions and also that there's more to people than their political affinities.

@Cavadour actually explained it perfectly, but since you won't bother reading their post, I'm not even sure what's the point of having a conversation.

i don't really care if there's more to people than them being racist and homophobic... to me, they are garbage because they choose to see me as less than

if they can't see beyond race and sexuality, why should i see beyond their bigotry? watering down racism to an "opinion" is kinda crazy too

[elijahfan 26,778]

1 minute ago, gagzus said:

Oh absolutely, like even our queer ancestors had negative opinions of each other. A lot of old queer men were misogynistic, a lot of older trans people hated gay men, straight philosophers hated queer ones, white heroes like Churchill hated black and queer people it all just goes around and around. Yeah we’re not perfect but I definitely still think we should hold each other accountable for hypocrisy.

I agree with you, and I think she should be held accountable. I'm not hiding that part of her legacy under the rug and I did acknowledge it in my initial post.

But she did have a very active and profound impact for a lot of causes that were important, and though I acknowledge the fact she wasn't perfect, I'd much rather focus on the good she did around her at this precise moment. I think there's enough hatred and division in the world right now, and we have much bigger fish to fry than Brigitte Bardot.

[Bronco 14,947]

7 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I agree with all of this apart from the bit about her being a feminist. 

That is the one part of her early legacy that absolutely should be dropped from her mythology as a public figure given the anti-feminism she promoted with the platform she built herself. 

[gagzus 16,455]

2 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

It’s how I feel about the founding fathers of the US, too. They had high minded ideals, sewed the seeds of the abolition of slavery and women’s suffrage into the rhetorical and theoretical framework of the US Constitution, however, many of them remained slave owners and allowed for the political oppression of women during their lifetimes. Two things can be true at once and I think people really seem to dislike that sometimes lmao 

Oh two things can absolutely be true, but I do stand firm on my opinion of that people CAN and SHOULD educate themselves as time goes on. Sadly as humans were selfish and if something means sacrificing a bit of pride or power, we refuse to do it.

 

[Ladle Ghoulash 32,030]

Just now, Bronco said:

I agree with all of this apart from the bit about her being a feminist. 

That is the one part of her early legacy that absolutely should be dropped from her mythology as a public figure given the anti-feminism she promoted with the platform she built herself. 

That’s the reason why I said “icon” not “activist” just because there are women that do view her in her early years as an empowering figure, in spite of her anti-feminist behavior later on. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 32,030]

Just now, gagzus said:

Oh two things can absolutely be true, but I do stand firm on my opinion of that people CAN and SHOULD educate themselves as time goes on. Sadly as humans were selfish and if something means sacrificing a bit of pride or power, we refuse to do it.

 

No, no I completely agree with you. I don’t think age is necessarily an excuse (I mean look at someone like Jane Fonda!), I just think sometimes people try to make things strictly binary (this person did tbis bad thing, therefore positive contributions don’t matter and vice versa). 

[gagzus 16,455]

2 minutes ago, elijahfan said:

I agree with you, and I think she should be held accountable. I'm not hiding that part of her legacy under the rug and I did acknowledge it in my initial post.

But she did have a very active and profound impact for a lot of causes that were important, and though I acknowledge the fact she wasn't perfect, I'd much rather focus on the good she did around her at this precise moment. I think there's enough hatred and division in the world right now, and we have much bigger fish to fry than Brigitte Bardot.

Oh yes absolutely, however sadly a lot of the negative things in her life to dislike her for made up the majority of her life. Her positive contribution to culture only lasted 2 decades whilst the rest of her negative opinions lasted till the day she died. 
 

But yes I agree we have bigger fish to fry, however, we should be using her as a minor example of what a bad person actually looks like. Doing good for a bit does not outweigh being bad for the rest of the time imo. However I’m happy to agree to disagree about her legacy ofc it’s all personal.

[elijahfan 26,778]

1 minute ago, Bronco said:

I agree with all of this apart from the bit about her being a feminist. 

That is the one part of her early legacy that absolutely should be dropped from her mythology as a public figure given the anti-feminism she promoted with the platform she built herself. 

I totally agree with that statement too. She definitely wasn't a feminist but her actions did a lot for the emancipation of women, especially in the mid 50s, so she ended up becoming a feminist figure in spite of herself. Sometimes, the symbol is more significant than the human behind it.

[elijahfan 26,778]

6 minutes ago, gagzus said:

Oh yes absolutely, however sadly a lot of the negative things in her life to dislike her for made up the majority of her life. Her positive contribution to culture only lasted 2 decades whilst the rest of her negative opinions lasted till the day she died.

I wouldn't say her positive contribution to culture only lasted the 2 decades she was an actress, but would go as far as saying it truly started when she retired and dedicated her life to animals.

The defense of animals truly was her life's purpose and main battle. Even though she cozied up to the far-right pretty much her whole life and was brutally honest in her biographies and interviews when asked on the subject, she never made the spread of far-right ideals a personal mission and goal. All of her resources and energy went towards her foundation and I believe this is what she would want her legacy to be.

Once again, one doesn't negate the other, but I feel like this is still important to point out.

Edited December 29, 2025 by elijahfan

[Ronk 14,814]

26 minutes ago, gagzus said:

The reason I put all old people is because I meant ALL old people should be held accountable for the views they were raised with. You’ve learned and become a better person which is amazing (because me too) and I’m happy you have. Same goes for all the older people who have, but we all still have slightly off kilter views whether we think it or not. For example this year I had pretty negative views of Non Binary people until this year when I actually talked to people who identified as such.

We’re still learning as we get older, and we should be open to the ideas of young people. The children are our future as Whitney once said

I understand.   I'm fortunate to have been raised by parents who were not racist, homophobic, or transphobic, so I didn't have to unlearn those bad things.  I don't recall any of their friends being that way either.  I guess my parents chose their friends wisely.

[ANVEEROY 62,150]

5 hours ago, elijahfan said:

She was an old lady, born in the 20s, nostalgic for a society that doesn't exist anymore... Wow, crazy. If you want to crucify every old person with backwards views, good luck with that.

So she gets a free pass for being old? I didn't understand your argument tbh 

[TheMontebello 684]

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Edited December 29, 2025 by TheMontebello
Nevermind

[Ronk 14,814]

On 12/28/2025 at 10:18 AM, Leography said:

An icon of her times for sure, but she spent the last years of her life promoting racism, homophobia and getting cozy with the French far right party. She might have been beautiful but her words and actions were plain ugly in the end. Good riddance. 

I only remember her as being beautiful.  I knew nothing about her personal life or views.  I am very surprised by what I am reading in this thread.

[Cavadour 2,547]

On 12/29/2025 at 7:53 PM, Ladle Ghoulash said:

look at someone like Jane Fonda!

What a strange irony, but also how logical, to see Jane Fonda's name in these columns. First and foremost, I would like to point out that I have a great deal of admiration for her, her career, her longevity... But also for being someone who has not shied away from controversy in order to assert her opinion. If you don't know what I'm referring to here, just G00gl “Hanoi Jane” and the story that goes with it to get an idea.

Before anyone fires broadsides at me, pointing out the differences between Bardot and Fonda's positions, can we talk about the similarities? Both were married to Roger Vadim, who exploited their sex symbol image in “And God Created Woman” for one and “Barbarella” for the other...

Age is also a big topic in this thread. Younger people emphasize the fact that as we get older, we become, or at least should become, wiser and more discerning. This is generally true, but there are obviously exceptions. In the same thread, we see that the opinions of the olders are often challenged by the youngers, which only serves to highlight that the generational conflicts that have always existed are not about to end.

When you are young—and we all are at some point in our lives—you know that you will grow old—for those who live that long. What you are not really aware of when you are young is how quickly this process will take place. Like a fruit that is still green and sour and becomes more fragrant and sweet as it ripens, some individuals, like fruits, rot and fall before reaching that stage, while others dry up before ripening. Fruits have this advantage over us: they do not have to try to understand the process that affects them in order to improve their coexistence. Fact is, a single overripe pear in a barrel is enough to ruin all the alcohol that can be obtained from it by distillation...

 

"Every individual who leads, who does something, has against him/her/them:
- those who would have liked to do the same thing but did not;
- those who did the opposite;
- and above all, the great army of people who are all the more severe because they do nothing at all."

Jules Claretie 1840-1913

 

...and also, there's none so deaf as the one will not hear.

 

Friendly and respectfully yours,