Beyoncé Breaks Several Records w/ Cowboy Carter Tour

[Karl 3,413]

 

[StrawberryBlond 14,862]

11 hours ago, Leography said:

No. You have been claiming arguments, and when proven wrong, or given nuanced answers about them, you changed the original point. That is not logic. Exemples bellow:

Your very first argument was that there were "no references/the show was empty of meaning", but then they were but "Beyoncé's too busy to search on her own" or "it's plagiarism". Also, who here said all the show comes from Beyoncé's mind? Yes we are huge fans, doesn't mean we can't give credit to her incredible creative team. Just like The Art of Personal Chaos stems hugely from Parris' mind, we know damn well Beyoncé had a team to help her put the show together. But we also known damn well how hands on she is when it comes to her work, and she knows how to pick her collaborators extremely well to help her bring her vision to life. It goes for every big artists, in maybe diffferent scales, but be Gaga, Bey, Lana, etc etc, they all have a team behind them, and nobody here would say otherwise. When we praise an artists, we automatically praise their team, we know that. 
(And btw, as for the Attack of the 400 ft Cowboy interlude: Nadia Lee Cohen directed the visuals, including this one. So yeah, if you look up her work and references, I'd be keen to believe the idea come from Bey's team, and not Lana's MV.)

Again, you're getting pushback from us not because you didn't like the show, hell, who cares, but because you change your tune every message. You went from "no references" to "they don't ring true". And they can appear meaningless do to you, that's fine, but that's not what you said at first. Do you understand why it's frustrating? As for the point presented: or maybe she didn't before because she was happy doing RnB/Pop, but felt the need to expand her artistry as she's getting older? I mean I agree, obviously the question of "will this album be good/interesting" was presented to her. But I don't get why it's a bad thing. Maybe it's the "blind adoration", but I'm happy she still takes big swings like this, this late in her carreer. That + the CMA debacle. But we already talked about that.

Do we need to? No. But is it a bad thing if we do? I don't see why it would be. For exemple, I had no idea that the banjo was an evolution of African instruments. And yes, I had to research the album to know that, but Google is free and learning is fun. But again, we're not saying you HAVE to, we're pointing out that there's a lot of history/meaning is in this project. But it can absolutely be enjoyed (or not, obviously) without it. But yeah, some of the lyrics (AMERIICAN REQUIEM and YA YA comes immediately to mind) are pretty straightforward, so even without doing a dig dive (that's the word right?), I'd say it'd be hard to listen to the album/attend the tour without getting the idea of what's she's trying to say. And again, it can ring false to you, but that wasn't the original point.

Again. Feelings are not logic. To you, a non fan, those interludes were long. And that's okay. But just as much as it's okay, you have to understand that to some people they're not. Again, that's not logic, that's how we felt. But passing it as logic just doesn't work. And if you want more criticism of Beyoncé I can give you: I hate that she brings her children on stage, the show doesn't need it and it's obviously very dangerous to them, the prices of tickets and merch are insane and yes, despite all her qualities as an intertainer/artists, she's one of the most profit driven major artist out there, most of her first albums aren't that good to me, I really hate that she's not more vocal about politics, especially in today's world, when she could be such a major voice for change given her following etc. 
Just because we call out when people don't make sense in her arguments and are quick to defend her doesn't mean that we can't see that she's not perfect. Hell, who is?

Again, I hope you can understand that what we're annoyed with here is the constant changing of the argument. I assure you, no one will lose sleep over you no liking her or the tour. It's just frustrating to debate when someone flip flops constantly. But if you don't it's okay, as you say, no one here will likely change their mind, so there's not much point on keeping this going.

How can I be proved wrong about an opinion? I've not changed my original points either. At most, I maybe expanded on them and you misinterpreted it as me changing what I said.

I said there were barely any references and it wasn't as deep as her fans made it out to be. That's a different issue to what's being there being plagiarised. Actually, a lot of her fans say she does absolutely everything to do with her music, even if it weren't the people here specifically. I'm saying that maybe her team did come up with some concepts but Beyonce doesn't research if anyone else has done them or seem to be aware of very popular pieces of art they're based on. 

I'm not going to cross reference everything I said by going back but my opinion has stayed the same: barely any references and the ones that were there were superficial at best. It's not like I'm saying I liked something and then later claim I didn't, that would be flip flopping. It's frustrating to me when people want me to keep explaining my very straightforward opinion and suggest I'm stupid for having it. And it's a bad thing when she's taking on a whole new genre just for one album, like trying on a costume and then will be abandoning it afterwards, just using it temporarily, especially during a time when country's made a comeback. This is why people say it comes across false. Guaranteed we'll never hear a mention of Linda Martell from here on out and probably very few of these country songs ever played again. 

But she didn't mention that part about the banjo during the tour so how has the album taught you anything? Most of the songs on it are about Beyonce's marriage, children and her personal life's journey, Ameriican Requiem and Ya Ya are basically the only songs that suggest a more sociopolitical message or are saying something about country music. I also didn't appreciate the condescending nature she made throughout the album informing about what genre means and how it's defined. It's like, are you really surprised a genre's community are a bit peeved that you're donning its style for one album to make money and acting like you're doing the genre a favour for it? I can't think of one genre's community that would accept this or take kindly to being educated as to what constitutes country. This is a fusion album above all else, to call it flat-out country is disingenuous. 

Well, at least you acknowledge that an opinion on it either way is not built on logic rather than just attacking my way of looking at it. I'm glad that you can find more to criticise than just the prices now. I too, think bringing on her children isn't the best, particularly a very young Rumi, just to have her sit there. There's a real sense of "changing of the guard" here, like she's going to pass on the entertaining to the next generation and wants them to have careers in this field. The glorification of Blue when she's still a child and not a professional must have been weird for those adult dancers who had trained hard for this and have to applaud a nepo baby like a clapping seal. I also think the inclusion of her children is part of the reason why the tour was so short because they'd need to go to school, have free time and stability and a world tour would've taken them out of that too long. For what it's worth, I do like her debut, 4, self-titled and Lemonade. I don't think entertainers need to be politicians but yes, if she apparently likes to be political but only about things that matter to her, that isn't the best look.

I sometimes think it would've been best just to say I didn't like it and leave it at that. But that's not my style. I believe in having reasoning and substance to what your beliefs. I was always taught not to simply say you dislike something without explanation. I feel I've done that totally fine but then it was like I was getting piled on for it when no one else was and was accused of changing my opinion when its stayed the same.

11 hours ago, Bronco said:

I'm not a Beyoncé fan.

But its crazy to me that people are dismissing her visual artistry on the current tour. 

Because it probably didn't all come from her, like most singers. It comes from art directors and production teams. And Beyonce has been called out for copying visuals many a time over the years. I won't deny that the visuals were stunning, but they didn't have a whole lot to say, they were just cool looking imagery. Too many and overly long, pretentious and self-obsessed.

8 hours ago, Roughhouse Dandy said:

Again. No one here cares if you like it or not. What I'm not liking is the goalpost moving and disingenuity. Have fun with that! 

I explain all this with Leography. I don't know why you're convinced that I'm changing my mind and being disingenuous, I've been totally real from the start, which is why I've got into these arguments!

[Leography 154]

Yeah I'm out, we're clearly speaking into the void. Sorry to if anyone was annoyed by the thread being bumped daily, I should have know better than to answer everytime. See y'all for the CCT Movie announcement though 

[StrawberryBlond 14,862]

On 8/5/2025 at 11:24 PM, Leography said:

Yeah I'm out, we're clearly speaking into the void. Sorry to if anyone was annoyed by the thread being bumped daily, I should have know better than to answer everytime. See y'all for the CCT Movie announcement though 

I don't mind that you think differently, btw. I only responded in the first place because you showed an interest in what I was saying and it just got out of hand. You're free to have your beliefs as much as me and I don't have any hard feelings towards you, just so you know.