InTheCloset 18,361 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 I have some things id like to say about Joker folie. I think the main mistake was Marketing and Campaigning From the start it was advertised as a 'not a musical'. Instead they should have promoted it as a musical and added statements like 'Gaga gives Harlequin a new persona through music' 'Gaga adds a touch/gift of her music to elevate Joker's and Harley's relationship.' Tbh the DC incels were never on our side but this could have built up hype among critics as they would have wondered what kind of musical would JFAD be after ASIB. Second thing (Spoiler alert) Spoiler Joaquin dies at the end. 2-3 months before the venice film festival they should have done interviews with gaga joaquin and todd in which they would repeatedly imply that there is a joker in all of us. We all are the joker somehow. Several interviews with the three of them together saying who is the joker? The Joker is a phenomenon that is inside all of us, gaga should have said i could be the joker, you could be the joker. There is this madness and dark side in all of us. Then Harlequin should have been teased with Gaga's The Joker released during that time. 'The joker is me the joker is me' which would have lead to more speculation and hype as what will be happening in the movie. With at least one televised performance of The Joker at the end of which Gaga sgould have said something like we all are the joker in one way or the other. Again the incels would have hated it but the critics would have wondered 'what are they up to now'. After that harlequin release at least a week prior to the venice film festival. I watched the movie and i loved it whether gaga would have been in it or not. It explored some layers and depths of human nature. However Todd mainly tried used this project as a quick cash grab which ultimately lead to the debacle with Gaga being blamed for almost everything. Im happy she moved on quick to her music but Joker Folie could have had its moment should there had been a proper strategy. You cant hide who you are 11:59 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 152,794 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 It shouldn't have been a musical. That's it tbh. It's a good movie, it's not a good musical. Lee's character works as a fantastic foil to Arthur's and it turns the usual "abusive Joker and Harley with total Stockholm syndrome" on its head by making Harley the manipulative liar and "Joker" the mentally ill mark played for a fool. Had they leaned into that and maybe cut the trial to just half of the movie and gave the other half to a plot where Lee was slowly revealed as a liar pulling Arthur's strings until he unravels, ends up back in prison, and gets killed by someone who's criminally demented enough to be the Joker that Lee actually wanted. 🧡The blindfold's off my eyes, all I see for me is better days🧡 6 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG2008 4,551 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) I disagree with people who say it shouldn't have been a musical. If anything, they wasted time with the trial When early reviews mentioned Gaga was barely in the movie I remember saying that I hoped her transformation wasn't sudden and really hoped we just didn't see her with a different look suddenly... and that's exactly what happened Her character lacked development in the movie. She was manipulating Arthur the whole time and for Arthur, music was important. I would've loved to actually see in the movie that she didn't give a f*ck about music and singing and she was doing that just to manipulate Arthur. In my opinion, she was the villain in Arthur's life and they should've went with it. It would've been nice if she k*lled some people too She wanted the Joker, not Arthur And her waltz was completely wasted Edited April 11 by LG2008 5 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LateToCult 40,636 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 18 minutes ago, PartySick said: It's a good movie 2 10 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nATAH 46,062 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 i havent seen it yet but it sounds like its the wrong type of movie for that type of fanbase mother, what must i do? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oriane 20,473 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 Nothing's wrong with the movie, it's the audience. 90% of the negative critics I see completely miss the point of the movie or focus on things that aren't even bad. Does the movie challenge your expectations and leave you betrayed at the end? Yes, and that's what makes it amazing! It always takes a bit to digest works like this, but you come to terms with it eventually. As for the movie not sticking to a genre, I don't know what to say except to watch more movies and broaden your cinematographic culture. There are many more points that I've read and could address. This movie personally touched me and I could talk about it all day. I already watched it 3 times and keep discovering things everytime I watch The only TAG member who can read / Credits to Celloo Deng for the profile pic! 5 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celloo Deng 54,372 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) For me, some of the musical parts were unpleasant to listen to because of the intentionally bad singing (particularly Arthur solos) and they ended up feeling like they actually stagnated the plot at times instead of helping it move forward. I also just found the story a bit boring and unsatisfying, which is probably due to my own expectations as a DC fan that we’d see more action around Gotham with the two of them causing havoc together. I haven’t had any desire to watch it a second time. It was kinda sad and brutal towards Arthur for the most part which is a shame because he’s a likeable character. Edited April 11 by Celloo Deng she/her 👹🖤 | MJ King of Pop 🎶 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Vela 2,659 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 the first half is actually pretty good, but the second half with the trial and ZERO character development ruined everything. Some musical numbers didn't work at all, and lee just changing clothes to go full harley to the trial just to leave later and that's all was just poor writing/directing/editing... They deleted LOTS of material, and the title didn't have any sense with the plot 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG2008 4,551 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) 7 hours ago, Omar Vela said: They deleted LOTS of material, and the title didn't have any sense with the plot One can argue that the folie à deux thing was about Arthur and his Joker persona. But the marketing makes you think it was about Arthur and Harley I agree that it feels (and I may not have proof outside of some scenes shown in the trailers and some we saw them shooting, but I know it) that they significantly reduced her role and cut most of her scenes I pray for the day someone gets in the WB's servers or Todd Phillips' hard drive and leak the whole thing Edited April 11 by LG2008 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Vela 2,659 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 8 minutes ago, LG2008 said: One can argue that the folie à deux thing was about Arthur and his Joker persona. But the marketing makes you think it was about Arthur and Harley I agree that it feels (and I may not have proof outside of some scenes shown in the trailers and some we saw they shooting, but I know it) that they significantly reduced her role and cut most of her scenes I pray for the day someone gets in the WB's servers or Todd Phillips' hard drive and leak the whole thing i pray for a Alien 3: Assembly cut kind of scenario 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
River 111,853 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 I disagree with all of u. It shouldn't even exist I'll watch it someday though but I hate the movie so much Justice for Harlequin, one of her best album has been overshadowed by this "movie" Come on and wrap that blade of grass around my hairy ass 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIGMA 195 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 It’s not that bad, but still not good Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nite 5,289 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 I agree marketing was a big problem. Some friends who don't follow Gaga or current movies at all randomly watched it on streaming and were just baffled. The incels weren't going to like it anyway. I was just a bit bored with it, courtroom stuff generally doesn't interest me though. Nowadays I'm just kind of grumpy about it and all her deleted scenes because Gaga's time is limited with her being so busy and she invested so much energy in this which could've gone into a different great film project that fully appreciated her work Just glad we got Harlequin and some great looks out of it 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
princedeeblebleble 1,232 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 Honestly the biggest issue here was marketing. they sold an entirely different movie in promotion whereas the actual movie was a court drama with musical elements and a disgusting sex scene that had no business being there. All the best scenes were actually inconsequential to the actual story and the most beautiful scenes were all in his head. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTheCloset 18,361 Posted April 11 Author Share Posted April 11 1 hour ago, River said: I disagree with all of u. It shouldn't even exist I'll watch it someday though but I hate the movie so much Justice for Harlequin, one of her best album has been overshadowed by this "movie" @River being a @River Spoiler flowing in the wrong direction You cant hide who you are 11:59 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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