Netflix’s Emilia Pérez is facing backlash for its portrayal of Mexican culture

[Bronco 6,688]

Just now, elijahfan said:

Once again, I’m not invalidating anyone’s opinion, I’m just reminding that it’s what they are: opinions. The reception of the movie has overwhelmingly been positive since its premiere at Cannes in May, and that should be taken into account. My tone is merely matching the one of the people who are spewing hate towards the film and the people who made it. A conversation is definitely warranted, but the hate is uncalled for.

Look the only thing that should be taken into account is the opinions of the people the film depicts. And the general consensus there seems to be negative and there are valid criticisms being raised by people who have actual real life experience of the issues raised in the film about how the film covers these issues. 

I don't think it's right to sit there and go "the people this film about say it's bad but that's not right because white europeans love it". 

On subjects as emotive as cartel violence, missing peoples and trans people's experience we absolutely should be listening to them and dismissing them as "spewing hate" because you disagree with them or don't have the same personal history with the subject matter is just not a great stance to take in my personal opinion. 

[elijahfan 25,010]

11 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Look the only thing that should be taken into account is the opinions of the people the film depicts. And the general consensus there seems to be negative and there are valid criticisms being raised by people who have actual real life experience of the issues raised in the film about how the film covers these issues. 

I don't think it's right to sit there and go "the people this film about say it's bad but that's not right because white europeans love it". 

On subjects as emotive as cartel violence, missing peoples and trans people's experience we absolutely should be listening to them and dismissing them as "spewing hate" because you disagree with them or don't have the same personal history with the subject matter is just not a great stance to take in my personal opinion. 

There’s a very vocal minority that hate the film at the moment, but this is certainly not the consensus regarding the film, as proven by its reception since its premiere in May. Right now is actually the first time we’re hearing anything remotely negative about the film in the 7 months it’s been in the spotlight. While it’s a conversation that needs to be had, it’s also not a great stance to trash the film and its director with such violence.

[Bronco 6,688]

3 minutes ago, elijahfan said:

There’s a very vocal minority that hate the film at the moment, but this is certainly not the consensus regarding the film, as proven by its reception since its premiere in May. Right now is actually the first time we’re hearing anything remotely negative about the film in the 7 months it’s been in the spotlight. While it’s a conversation that needs to be had, it’s also not a great stance to trash the film and its director with such violence.

You keep pointing to the consensus but not saying what that consensus is. 
That is a consensus formed by white europeans (such as the Cannes film festival you reference) with no actual connection to the subject matter and no actual understandings of the matter. 

If you look online you will see plenty of articles, months old discussing the negative reception in Mexico and Latin America. It's even in the wikipedia article. The fact you haven't seen any of this just speaks to the fact you aren't from those countries and like me live in a country with no connection or rooted understanding of the subject. It doesn't mean it's new, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just means you don't have an understanding outside of your own personal surroundings. 

Dismissing the people directly experiencing the issues in this film that are up for discussion as a "vocal minority" is incredibly insensitive and inappropriate. Telling people on this forum who are way more educated on the subject than you that they are wrong because the Cannes Film Festival said the film is good is monumentally arrogant. 

It honestly feels disingenous that you say a conversation needs to be had while responding to anyone who points out things you weren't aware of and saying they are wrong. Telling people "facts are facts" when you yourself admit that you have no idea what's been said in the rest of the world beyond your bubble. And tone policing how people with direct experience respond to this film. Dismissing mexicans angry at inaccurate & stereotypical portrayals of an incredily emotive & real issue for them as being down to Gaga fans wanting to trash something because JFAD was a JFOP is insane. 

And also I've read this entire thread. Where is the violence? 

[AMRer 3,223]

12 minutes ago, Bronco said:

You keep pointing to the consensus but not saying what that consensus is. 
That is a consensus formed by white europeans (such as the Cannes film festival you reference) with no actual connection to the subject matter and no actual understandings of the matter. 

If you look online you will see plenty of articles, months old discussing the negative reception in Mexico and Latin America. It's even in the wikipedia article. The fact you haven't seen any of this just speaks to the fact you aren't from those countries and like me live in a country with no connection or rooted understanding of the subject. It doesn't mean it's new, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just means you don't have an understanding outside of your own personal surroundings. 

Dismissing the people directly experiencing the issues in this film that are up for discussion as a "vocal minority" is incredibly insensitive and inappropriate. Telling people on this forum who are way more educated on the subject than you that they are wrong because the Cannes Film Festival said the film is good is monumentally arrogant. 

It honestly feels disingenous that you say a conversation needs to be had while responding to anyone who points out things you weren't aware of and saying they are wrong. Telling people "facts are facts" when you yourself admit that you have no idea what's been said in the rest of the world beyond your bubble. And tone policing how people with direct experience respond to this film. Dismissing mexicans angry at inaccurate & stereotypical portrayals of an incredily emotive & real issue for them as being down to Gaga fans wanting to trash something because JFAD was a JFOP is insane. 

And also I've read this entire thread. Where is the violence? 

There's an important detail here. The movie is mostly focus on drugs and cartels, something that I guess don't feel mexicans proud about. So even if the movie was perfectly done and so close to realy, mexicans would like it? 

 

[Bronco 6,688]

6 minutes ago, AMRer said:

There's an important detail here. The movie is mostly focus on drugs and cartels, something that I guess don't feel mexicans proud about. So even if the movie was perfectly done and so close to realy, mexicans would like it? 

 

I can't speak to how would Mexicans would react to the hypothetical you raise. Perhaps other users could. 

But people aren't from my understanding angry at the focus on the cartels & the missing peoples epidemic in Mexico. The anger and upset is that Audiard's admitted he has not put the work in to research the issues he's written about and that the film as a result relies on incredibly negative and insensitive stereotypes of Mexico & Mexicans. 
Then you have the casting director Carla Hool suggesting that they didn't cast Mexicans because Mexicans lack the talent which is just....a horrendous statement to make when making a movie about Mexico & Mexicans. 
So I just personally feel like the people creating the film didn't have the right intentions to tackle such an important humanitarian issue. If you can't even be bothered to research such an incredibly emotive and personal subject for thousands of people before essentially turning it into a product for profit...that just doesn't sit well with me in the slightest. 

And on the trans issues, I haven't seen a single Trans group/org or LGBTQ group/org say anything positive about how the main character is portrayed. GLAAD say it's a retrograde portrayal. I haven't seen the film, it's not my personal style of film, but if the consensus among trans folks is this then I don't really see why anyone would dismiss it even if the film wasn't intending to be negative. People with good intentions can still **** up. 

[elijahfan 25,010]

36 minutes ago, Bronco said:

You keep pointing to the consensus but not saying what that consensus is. 
That is a consensus formed by white europeans (such as the Cannes film festival you reference) with no actual connection to the subject matter and no actual understandings of the matter. 

If you look online you will see plenty of articles, months old discussing the negative reception in Mexico and Latin America. It's even in the wikipedia article. The fact you haven't seen any of this just speaks to the fact you aren't from those countries and like me live in a country with no connection or rooted understanding of the subject. It doesn't mean it's new, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just means you don't have an understanding outside of your own personal surroundings. 

Dismissing the people directly experiencing the issues in this film that are up for discussion as a "vocal minority" is incredibly insensitive and inappropriate. Telling people on this forum who are way more educated on the subject than you that they are wrong because the Cannes Film Festival said the film is good is monumentally arrogant. 

It honestly feels disingenous that you say a conversation needs to be had while responding to anyone who points out things you weren't aware of and saying they are wrong. Telling people "facts are facts" when you yourself admit that you have no idea what's been said in the rest of the world beyond your bubble. And tone policing how people with direct experience respond to this film. Dismissing mexicans angry at inaccurate & stereotypical portrayals of an incredily emotive & real issue for them as being down to Gaga fans wanting to trash something because JFAD was a JFOP is insane. 

And also I've read this entire thread. Where is the violence? 

I hear you, and I’m not saying anyone is wrong and shouldn’t feel the way they feel. But because a group of people didn’t like it doesn’t mean it is objectively a film without merit, far from that. And I’ll gladly agree to disagree with you all.

[elijahfan 25,010]

11 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Then you have the casting director Carla Hool suggesting that they didn't cast Mexicans because Mexicans lack the talent which is just....a horrendous statement to make when making a movie about Mexico & Mexicans.

I wasn’t aware of that. This was obviously a stupid thing to say and I can only agree with you on that.

[Bronco 6,688]

3 minutes ago, elijahfan said:

I hear you, and I’m not saying anyone is wrong and shouldn’t feel the way they feel. But because a group of people didn’t like it doesn’t mean it is objectively a film without merit, far from that. And I’ll gladly agree to disagree with you all.

Look when it comes to serious humanitarian issues. When the creator of a film says they didn't research the humanitarian issue then the film's story is objectively without merit. 

We can have a debate about the performances, the work of the editors etc.

But it's indefensible to take an issue like the Missing Persons epidemic in Mexico where over 115,000 people have gone missing almost all as a result of Cartel violence and then turn it into a film without any research. It's incredibly disrespectful to those missing people and every single friend & family member affected by the loss. 

No number of film awards & white european critics saying the film is a good watch erase the ignorance and arrogance of Audiard. If he worked in any other field where topics like this get covered he'd be blacklisted, stripped of every title & award he had and have his career destroyed for such a flagrant lack of ethics & morality. 

[elijahfan 25,010]

33 minutes ago, Bronco said:

No number of film awards & white european critics saying the film is a good watch erase the ignorance and arrogance of Audiard. If he worked in any other field where topics like this get covered he'd be blacklisted, stripped of every title & award he had and have his career destroyed for such a flagrant lack of ethics & morality. 

I’ll be honest with you, I’m actually not the biggest Audiard fan. But I did find the film magnificent and believed, obviously mistakenly, that it had tackled those issues in a very touching and beautiful way. Talking with you all, I can only face the fact that they did miss the mark somewhere.

[GagaTheExplorer 2,947]

Me duele la pinche vulva de ver esta película ganar premios inmerecidamente

Edited 8 hours ago by GagaTheExplorer

[MadArchitect 599]

4 hours ago, elijahfan said:

Check out the local release dates of other films that are being pushed for awards and you’ll see this is not just about Emilia. It’s been working that way for decades, it’s literally the same in France and countless other local territories. While filmmakers might express their wishes regarding these strategies, at the end of the day this gets decided by the distributor. And there was no intention of singling out Mexico regarding those strategies. The film was released in priority in French-speaking territories because it’s the market it was initially made for, it’s as simple as that.

ok, so you agree, this movie that is about mexican issues didnt take mexico as a priority, and they just went with what was most confortable and convenient, not caring at all about mexican reception, and not made for its market and audience, and they do have a say in it...

4 hours ago, elijahfan said:

Once again, I’m not invalidating anyone’s opinion, I’m just reminding that it’s what they are: opinions. The reception of the movie has overwhelmingly been positive since its premiere at Cannes in May, and that should be taken into account. My tone is merely matching the one of the people who are spewing hate towards the film and the people who made it. A conversation is definitely warranted, but the hate is uncalled for.

no gurl, you were saying that the movie is objectively good and if someome says it is bad or the director is bad then they are factually wrong, that is no fact and no amount of prestige awards and commercial success will ever make somebody's distaste of it factually wrong. Why would that ever be taken into account for somebody to like it or not or to have the opinion that it is good or bad? people here literally dont care about it, we have our very valid reasons to criticize that movie and to say that it is bad, it is not just hate for the sake of it, the movie is extremely problematic in many senses, nobody here is "spewing hate" or personally attacking the people involved.

Edited 6 hours ago by MadArchitect

[altern8version 568]

this movie was sh!t from a butt

[elijahfan 25,010]

1 hour ago, MadArchitect said:

ok, so you agree, this movie that is about mexican issues didnt take mexico as a priority, and they just went with what was most confortable and convenient, not caring at all about mexican reception, and not made for its market and audience, and they do have a say in it...

no gurl, you were saying that the movie is objectively good and if someome says it is bad or the director is bad then they are factually wrong, that is no fact and no amount of prestige awards and commercial success will ever make somebody's distaste of it factually wrong. Why would that ever be taken into account for somebody to like it or not or to have the opinion that it is good or bad? people here literally dont care about it, we have our very valid reasons to criticize that movie and to say that it is bad, it is not just hate for the sake of it, the movie is extremely problematic in many senses, nobody here is "spewing hate" or personally attacking the people involved.

Alright alright, I’m not disagreeing with the fact that the movie clearly missed the mark with a key part of the audience. I’ll keep defending its merits and still think the criticism of its release strategy is dishonest, but I do understand better where the backlash is coming from.

If you don’t think anyone is spewing hate, maybe we’re not reading the same comments, in the same way I feel like we didn’t see the same film  But it’s ok, I think we’ve all made our points.