Biden internals showed Trump with 400 EVs

[MACATL 2,174]

1 hour ago, southpaw773 said:

I thought this was he had 400 electric cars 

Same! Hahaha

[Guest]

Makes me think about the reports saying Biden blamed his critics of his own party for not choosing him to run for 2016 and that one interview saying something along the lines that only god can prevent him to stay in the race. I feel like he pressed Democrats to choose him as the candidate and deny Bernie again and prevent a reset of the Democratic party establishment after in his mind rightfully predicting that Clinton was a missstep from the beginning. Remember, when Harris dropped out in 2019 and was one of the first to endorse behind Biden it concluded in a major wave of other primary candidates to also call it a day and endorse Biden und put Bernie Sanders into defense. When I watched the primaries back then, I remember feeling like all those candidates couldn't stand Sanders for his anti-establishment agenda. And now, we face this situation. Biden is the face of the dysfunction of the Dems. All comes down to a vulnerable male ego imo which could also explain these incredibly insensitive and dumb missteps of calling Republicans garbage in the last days to election day. They didn't want him involved because he couldn't stand Harris to replace him, where I feel like he also gave her the job to deal with migration out of strategy to prevent her from gaining any sympathy points in the first place. What this election showed me is that the Democratic party is out of touch with reality and must completely reset and distance themselves from their establishment, becoming the party of the people again and putting people with actual credibility of the likes of Jasmine Crockett or Katie Porter to the forefront rather than challenging them with PAC-candidates and ousting them once they get too critical of their establishment. Clinton, Biden and Harris and also Pelosi all are faces of the dysfunction of this party due to their involvement of the party establishment and if they don't deal with this after this debacle they won't do it anytime soon. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, chromaticainmyhead said:

Remember, when Harris dropped out in 2019 and was one of the first to endorse behind Biden it concluded in a major wave of other primary candidates to also call it a day and endorse Biden und put Bernie Sanders into defense. 

Excuse me, when Harris dropped out of the primary race she didn't immediately endorse Biden. She endorsed him way later in the race at a critical point when then shortly after her endorsement followed a lot of other candidates dropped out and immediately followed her right before primary elections started. To me it felt weird for her to drop out so early I remember when she had that major campaign with wealthy California supporters going on and had argumented it with "running out of money". I feel like she didn't actually run out of money but realized Biden has the influential parts of the party behind him and if she doesn't want to offend the these for future runs she must pull out as one of the firsts and gather behind him in order to secure a spot for a VP nomination. The result is politics from a high horse thanks to cooperate money which ultimately lead to this defeat.

[LateToCult 42,153]

6 minutes ago, chromaticainmyhead said:

Makes me think about the reports saying Biden blamed his critics of his own party for not choosing him to run for 2016 and that one interview saying something along the lines that only god can prevent him to stay in the race. I feel like he pressed Democrats to choose him as the candidate and deny Bernie again and prevent a reset of the Democratic party establishment after in his mind rightfully predicting that Clinton was a missstep from the beginning. Remember, when Harris dropped out in 2019 and was one of the first to endorse behind Biden it concluded in a major wave of other primary candidates to also call it a day and endorse Biden und put Bernie Sanders into defense. When I watched the primaries back then, I remember feeling like all those candidates couldn't stand Sanders for his anti-establishment agenda. And now, we face this situation. Biden is the face of the dysfunction of the Dems. All comes down to a vulnerable male ego imo which could also explain these incredibly insensitive and dumb missteps of calling Republicans garbage in the last days to election day. They didn't want him involved because he couldn't stand Harris to replace him, where I feel like he also gave her the job to deal with migration out of strategy to prevent her from gaining any sympathy points in the first place. What this election showed me is that the Democratic party is out of touch with reality and must completely reset and distance themselves from their establishment, becoming the party of the people again and putting people with actual credibility of the likes of Jasmine Crockett or Katie Porter to the forefront rather than challenging them with PAC-candidates and ousting them once they get too critical of their establishment. Clinton, Biden and Harris and also Pelosi all are faces of the dysfunction of this party due to their involvement of the party establishment and if they don't deal with this after this debacle they won't do it anytime soon. 

This is an interesting take. In all honesty, when it comes to Biden’s decisions, I think the motives were purely selfish and had nothing to do with upholding the establishment. He’s a man that’s been after the presidency for decades. He thinks he’s earned the right to be president. Washington is full of loose mouths. What we can piece together is that Biden resented Obama and the rest of the establishment for denying him the opportunity to run in 2016. He then saw his chances slipping in 2020 and most likely started coming to agreements with the other centrist candidates. After all, they had better opportunities under a Biden administration than a Sanders administration.
 

My opinion on the rest is that he was always seeking a second term. One of the very first things he did was saddle Kamala with that Central America/immigration fiasco. There was no way of coming out of that successfully , so he gave it to her to keep his own hands clean of it for when he ran again. It also helped that it would keep Kamala in check and in bad lighting to avoid buzz about her taking the reins. As president, he thought his experience in foreign policy made him well-versed in the affairs of Russia and Israel as well. He miscalculated just how hellish it would all get so he dug his heels in even more for a second term because he couldn’t fathom leaving that behind as his legacy. He had yes-men all around him refusing to tell him that even though the economy was strong from the market’s perspective, everyday people weren’t seeing that. He deluded himself into thinking he could do this until it was too late. The major players in the party didn’t want to bother him. I think I read somewhere that Obama wasn’t speaking to him very often because he felt guilty for wronging him in 2016. The establishment let him have his way until Nancy Pelosi decided enough was enough and started that push to get him out. Biden, feeling wronged again, decided if he was gonna do this, he was gonna do it his way. He immediately endorsed Kamala because he knew the establishment wanted a mini primary. He’s a spiteful old man. I don’t think he liked how unified the party seemed to get around her. It was like a spit in the face. That’s why he would repeatedly tie Kamala to his economy and make idiotic comments like the garbage thing. He also gave Israel that timeline that would end AFTER the election. Obviously, we won’t find out until much later but I do think the eventual film that gets green lit will go a little something like that. 
 

[Batwings 12,958]

Speaking as an American who has been a voting Democrat for nearly 20 years (I'm the same age as Gaga), the Democrats HAVE TO STOP trying to cater to conservative voters who will never vote for them anyway. I'm still devastated that Bernie didn't get the nomination in 2016 or 2020, but it is what it is, and we have to move on.

I've been a big fan of Kamala's, and I think she ran a pretty awesome campaign, BUT... having a rally with a bunch of celebrities performing is not what the country wants to see right now. It plays right into the Republican handbook of making Democrats look elitist and out of touch. 

I will freely admit that the vast majority of US voters are uninformed idiots. I was born here. I live here. I know this for a fact. But the Democrats need to work on reaching out to the working class much more than they have been. 

[Bronco 27,853]

2 hours ago, chromaticainmyhead said:

Makes me think about the reports saying Biden blamed his critics of his own party for not choosing him to run for 2016 and that one interview saying something along the lines that only god can prevent him to stay in the race. I feel like he pressed Democrats to choose him as the candidate and deny Bernie again and prevent a reset of the Democratic party establishment after in his mind rightfully predicting that Clinton was a missstep from the beginning. Remember, when Harris dropped out in 2019 and was one of the first to endorse behind Biden it concluded in a major wave of other primary candidates to also call it a day and endorse Biden und put Bernie Sanders into defense. When I watched the primaries back then, I remember feeling like all those candidates couldn't stand Sanders for his anti-establishment agenda. And now, we face this situation. Biden is the face of the dysfunction of the Dems. All comes down to a vulnerable male ego imo which could also explain these incredibly insensitive and dumb missteps of calling Republicans garbage in the last days to election day. They didn't want him involved because he couldn't stand Harris to replace him, where I feel like he also gave her the job to deal with migration out of strategy to prevent her from gaining any sympathy points in the first place. What this election showed me is that the Democratic party is out of touch with reality and must completely reset and distance themselves from their establishment, becoming the party of the people again and putting people with actual credibility of the likes of Jasmine Crockett or Katie Porter to the forefront rather than challenging them with PAC-candidates and ousting them once they get too critical of their establishment. Clinton, Biden and Harris and also Pelosi all are faces of the dysfunction of this party due to their involvement of the party establishment and if they don't deal with this after this debacle they won't do it anytime soon. 

There's absolutely a Democratic elite issue within the party. Hell the party's entire brand is smiling celebrities. 

The Bill Clinton era's third way has a lot to answer for for the damage it caused the party in the long term. Similar issues with every other third way leader in other nations tbf

[Shakmasda 258]

So more people would have voted for the evil to become an even more powerful president? More democrats would have chosen Trump?

Listen, you could have put Beyonce as candidate and I still would have voted Democrat, but NEVER would have voted for that vile man!

[MOT 3,652]

In terms of the Dems giving themselves the best chance in this election, yes, Biden should never have been a runner, and whoever emerged from a competitive primary would have been it. What chance would that person have had ? Well, a better chance than a very frail 81-y-o who would have run a disastrous campaign, and, let's be honest, a better chance than a non-white woman. However, they still would have had to deal with inflation, the border, Gaza and the blizzard of lies from Trump himself, Fox, Musk, Rogan etc. It would have been closer, but I think you'd still have been looking at a loss.

[Roughhouse Dandy 13,896]

As far as I'm concerned, the big problem is infighting on the left. Moderates blame democrats and splinter off, democrats blame leftists and splinter off, leftists blame neo-libs and splinter off. 

Republicans fight over who can be more republican but largely fall in line at the end of the day. 

If we have any hope of taking this country in a progressive direction, then non-right people have to start aiming their vitriol at the right. 

[FATCAT 60,968]

15 hours ago, Siena said:

The democrats biggest mistake was  putting in Kamala, and then having her essentially run as a Biden 2.0.

 

There wasn't an alternative, all the campaign money was tied to him or her. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Bronco said:

There's absolutely a Democratic elite issue within the party. Hell the party's entire brand is smiling celebrities. 

The Bill Clinton era's third way has a lot to answer for for the damage it caused the party in the long term. Similar issues with every other third way leader in other nations tbf

I didn't know the term Third Party and just looked it up. How do you think Clinton caused such long term damage? 

[Natalia Kills 430]

I don’t think Bernie wouldn’t have worked to be honest, it would alienate the center and Trump/GOP would have an easy time planting seeds of doubt on Bernie’s left-wing economic stance. Far too easy to tap into the “communist” fear the older generation had. 

It just comes down to the economic feel good factor. Biden overpromised, and while the economy was fairly solid regardless, the inflation left too much of a burn.

Kamala was good and sharp but her charisma was weak, which didn’t do well against her being a non-white woman. Plus she was essentially given the messy stuff like the border early on and took the hit to protect Biden - he was pitched as the saviour. 

Nearly all incumbent governments across the world are being hit by blame for inflation. 

It’s more that this is poorly timed and Trump is the nominee. The democratic strategists are also terrible compared to the republicans, they nail campaigns with less budget.

[Bronco 27,853]

1 hour ago, chromaticainmyhead said:

I didn't know the term Third Party and just looked it up. How do you think Clinton caused such long term damage? 

The Third Way was when the "left" parties like the Dems in the US/Labour in the UK tried to say the world had moved on from the class divisions of the 20th century and of left v right. 

Clinton dragged the Democrats away from its traditional base in the Blue wall of working class voters. Moved away from the unions, manufacturing etc and started on a mantra of "everyone is middle class".

And from it we saw a continual erosion of democrat strength in areas like the Blue Wall turned Rust Belt and in working class areas more generally. Which is exactly what the right-wing have exploited from the Tea party movement through to MAGA & Trumpism. An abandoned voting group of massive importance in multiple states that no one was courting and the Dems assumed had in the bag as god given.

[Bronco 27,853]

21 minutes ago, Natalia Kills said:

I don’t think Bernie wouldn’t have worked to be honest, it would alienate the center and Trump/GOP would have an easy time planting seeds of doubt on Bernie’s left-wing economic stance. Far too easy to tap into the “communist” fear the older generation had. 

It just comes down to the economic feel good factor. Biden overpromised, and while the economy was fairly solid regardless, the inflation left too much of a burn.

Kamala was good and sharp but her charisma was weak, which didn’t do well against her being a non-white woman. Plus she was essentially given the messy stuff like the border early on and took the hit to protect Biden - he was pitched as the saviour. 

Nearly all incumbent governments across the world are being hit by blame for inflation. 

It’s more that this is poorly timed and Trump is the nominee. The democratic strategists are also terrible compared to the republicans, they nail campaigns with less budget.

I agree no incumbent was in with a strong chance of winning this year. But I think Bernie would have won 2016, which then puts the threat of Trump in 2024 into question entirely tbh

[Natalia Kills 430]

1 hour ago, Bronco said:

I agree no incumbent was in with a strong chance of winning this year. But I think Bernie would have won 2016, which then puts the threat of Trump in 2024 into question entirely tbh

Yeah I can agree on 2016, he could have performed better than Hilary and maybe won by managing to show some difference from the Obama years. 

Hilary unfortunately felt like a weaker 3rd term of Obama. She still won the popular vote which is unfair to her, the electoral college needs to change. Trump won fairly this time around, but 2016 was a lucky grab of particular swing states.

It sucks women aren’t in the running to win. The dems messed up by making two female nominees be continuation candidates rather than fresh/change candidates. 

At this rate, I honestly think the republicans have a better chance of leveraging a female leader as an asset.