Joker 2 is a big hit and a big flop

[oheyitso 2,493]

some of my thoughts after my second viewing today! contains spoilers 

“Let’s give the people what they want” and Todd Phillips said 🖕

As a piece of commercial filmmaking, this is awful. Who is seeing this? There’s not enough Gaga for monsters, there’s not enough Joker and Harley for comic book lovers, musical lovers don’t want a half baked musical, and it’s bleak and tonally uneven for general audiences. I’m unsurprised it’s failed, this is what happens when you don’t test screen your movies and don’t accept rewrites from the person leading your film division (James Gunn). Big minus points, because as Grace Randolph always says, releasing a movie is mainly about satisfying the audience.
 

SPOILERS BELOW

But as a piece of art? I think it’s kind of genius. The movie takes the character of Joker, and uses it as a symbol for how society can idolise those fighting against the system, but then quickly drop them when the truth becomes a little too chilling. Arthur Flek is, in some way, a hero for becoming Joker. Once he accepts his abuse is what let him become Joker, he’s disposed for being too vulnerable. This film isn’t saying Arthur is pathetic, it’s saying he’s complicated. ‘Folie á deux’ serves its purpose, as Lee continues the cycle of falling into that same trap. Music as a representation of Lee’s chaos is a stroke of magic, and Gaga shines. 

This is what happens when creatives are let to be creative! But we need business heads too, with some simple rewrites to remove *some* of the music, cut down the first third, and introduce some actual Joker/Harley adventure -  this could have been the movie of a decade. But maybe Phillips didn’t want that - maybe he wanted to be vulnerable - and for that he suffers the same fate as Arthur - stabbed by the people who made him.

(Also Joaquin shouldn’t have sang AT all, his scenes are uncomfortable. Leave Gaga to singing) 

like my review on Letterboxd if u agree with me hehe https://boxd.it/7vqrn9

[SHALLOW 15,758]

I just watched it and really liked it. Gaga is great. Her best acting so far. I genuinely don't understand the bad reviews.

For people who have yet to see it: TRUST YOUR OWN OPINION.

Edited October 8 by SHALLOW

[Lucas 24,355]

3 minutes ago, SHALLOW said:

I just watched it and really liked it. Gaga is great. Her best acting so far. I genuinely don't understand the bad reviews

People are totally stuck on the fact that there is music in the movie and that it's considered a musical, their view on the entire movie is biased because of this.

[SHALLOW 15,758]

Just now, Lucas said:

People are totally stuck on the fact that there is music in the movie and that it's considered a musical, their view on the entire movie is biased because of this.

I was just a bit worried cause i also saw fans on here saying it was just bad but i can't see how tbh. Maybe the court scenes were a little boring but the rest was good. I also didn't mind the singing at all since i love Harlequin.

Gaga was there for most of the film but people made it seem like she was only there for 30 minutes or something.

I also understand what Todd wanted to do with it and i think it's great.

I knew i shouldn't trust other people's opinions 

[oheyitso 2,493]

6 minutes ago, Lucas said:

People are totally stuck on the fact that there is music in the movie and that it's considered a musical, their view on the entire movie is biased because of this.

Yeah they are, someone my friend went with nearly left because they hated the music. I think if they cut out Jaoquins bits and just kept the big numbers and Close To You, it would’ve been totally different. They should’ve done test screenings because this would’ve been revealed instantly  

[SHALLOW 15,758]

3 minutes ago, oheyitso said:

Yeah they are, someone my friend went with nearly left because they hated the music. I think if they cut out Jaoquins bits and just kept the big numbers and Close To You, it would’ve been totally different. They should’ve done test screenings because this would’ve been revealed instantly  

I agree Joaquins' singing was unnecessary but people would've probably still hated it even if it were just Gaga

[Reality 72,140]

I think intellectually, it's a great film. I love its themes and messages, and I think it has something really poignant to say, but a lot of it gets lost in its execution. The story itself is boring; the pacing is off; and the musicals could've/should've been bigger, grander, and more theatrical. It's a movie that I like to think more about than actually watch.

[oheyitso 2,493]

5 minutes ago, SHALLOW said:

I agree Joaquins' singing was unnecessary but people would've probably still hated it even if it were just Gaga

I think a lot of the hate is a hate train of people slamming it when they haven’t even seen it because there’s so much music, if it would’ve had 20% music, the hate train wouldn’t have started IMO

[elijahfan 24,929]

I really enjoyed it too after my second viewing. I'm actually not mad Todd Phillips kept the studio and test audiences at bay, at the end of the day it's his movie and his intentions were clearly not to please everyone. Taking a big swing doesn't always pay off, but nobody can deny he got to make the film he wanted to make. I also think the people that are mad kinda forgot what the first Joker was all about. If anything, Phillips doubled down and stuck to his guns.

At the end of the day, I think the way they sold the movie to audiences is what led to everyone being seemingly disappointed. I also still don't understand the hefty price tag.

Edited October 8 by elijahfan

[Obobo 2,702]

Art shouldn’t be judged by profit but by impact.

I think once this goes on streaming and more people will give it a chance (even several chances) it will start to click with more people.

Gaga aside, I’ve never been this impacted by a movie. I can’t stop thinking about what certain things symbolize and the amount of messages Todd was trying to convey. 

I don’t think it’s perfect and it is a really slow burn, especially with our damaged attentions spans but oddly I enjoyed how forced me to pay attention and think about what I’m watching. 

[Bowman 7,942]

I think it might start growing on people, although I was with my family for someone’s birthday tonight and there was about 20 of us, and some of the group was talking about the film and they was like ‘I CANT BELIEVE IT WAS A MUSICAL.’ I kept quiet in the background lol.
 

You’re right in saying that at the end of the day we as an audience need to be satisfied as that’s Todd’s job. On an intellectual level it’s an incredible movie / piece of art. But for your average Joe like… some of my family , they aren’t going to understand this movie on a deeper level. They just want to be entertained, and that’s it. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[oheyitso 2,493]

7 minutes ago, Obobo said:

Art shouldn’t be judged by profit but by impact.

I think once this goes on streaming and more people will give it a chance (even several chances) it will start to click with more people.

Gaga aside, I’ve never been this impacted by a movie. I can’t stop thinking about what certain things symbolize and the amount of messages Todd was trying to convey. 

I don’t think it’s perfect and it is a really slow burn, especially with our damaged attentions spans but oddly I enjoyed how forced me to pay attention and think about what I’m watching. 

I agree but unfortunately money is what stops you from making your art and allowing it to be seen by the most amount of people 

[Red 94,977]

Or Joker is the Judas of Gaga’s filmography, if I’m allowed 

[Siena 5,811]

That's pretty much exactly how I feel about it. It really is one of those films that isn't made for any particular audience, and many people don't like it based on their own expectations. That is fine, at the end of the day people need to be entertained by different things. 

Personally I am pretty satisfied with the film, and there are so many scenes I keep replaying in my head, and am so so excited to watch again. A lot of people had expectations about the movie going into it, and hate the film when it was the complete opposite. I'm hoping that as time goes by people will begin the accept their expectations were not met, and judge the film for what it is, rather than by what they hoped it would be. 

It still won't be perfect in many people's eyes, but it deserves some respect for the themes it was trying to bring forward and for the cinematography, acting and score. For those 3 reasons alone it is impossible for me to view it as a "bad" movie, and I wish people who didn't like the plot would simply stop simplifying it as that. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8 by Siena

[Shakmasda 171]

Didn't like any of the projects involving this movie/theme. I hope LG7 stays away from all this!