JFAD VS GagaDaily: Let’s Clarify

[Ivy 11,603]

2 hours ago, Hydrangea said:

Joker: floppy a doodoo bombing and being awful hasn’t got anything to do with Gaga. She’s been pretty much universally praised for what little they let her do and complained about the writing and story which let’s be real, sucks. It’s fine to call a bad spade a bad spade 

I mean it does, because she felt it was worth enough to put all her energy to the project 

[nATAH 42,320]

39 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Erm… He is a terrible director. He hasn’t made a single great movie. In fact, he is literally known for making mainstream drivel. The first Joker film was criticized plenty by critics, justifiably, and it aged poorly. In the last year or two, more and more people changed their mind about it.

This movie isn’t some underground independent artpiece. It’s a corporate product that didn’t meet its creative intentions. Fun that you liked it but there’s no way you can convincingly claim that the script and directing is objectively good. By what standard? Other Hollywood films? Todd’s biggest success: The Hangover?

It’s absolutely unfair to suggest that when people don’t like this Hollywood failure, they don’t get cinema or whatever lmfao. Go to a film festival and see for yourself what real creative directors do. Todd does not deserve any artistic respect. You’re only saying this because Gaga is involved.

looked at his director filmography the other day and wow, my face when i saw he was the one behind the god awful hangover movies 

Joker 1 really must have just been all the world's luck on his side 

[Monet 833]

13 hours ago, ChromaticaBoy said:

 

It’s crazy to me that any LM could completely give up a piece of art where Gaga is present just because of other people’s judgement. YOUR OWN TASTE is more important TO YOU than anybody else’s!

 

Completely agree. I saw a "fan" saying on social media that because of the amount of people talking about bad things about the movie, he wouldn't see it and would wait for the release on streaming. Like WTF, go support our girl and make your own opinion 

[Ayden 100]

6 hours ago, Didymus said:

Erm… He is a terrible director. He hasn’t made a single great movie. In fact, he is literally known for making mainstream drivel. The first Joker film was criticized plenty by critics, justifiably, and it aged poorly. In the last year or two, more and more people changed their mind about it.

Alright but that's fine. I respect people's opinions, everyone is entitled to their tastes. I personally found Joker to be an extremely well-made film, both as a piece of social commentary as well as a deconstruction of the character. I've found a lot of positive things in it that made me appreciate it even more throughout the years. Again, i'm not gonna get too much into it, but the thing is you can't speak for everybody when it comes to movies, because people are going to find different things in it, everytime. Like any work of art, it's made to elicit different reactions on people. Some might like it and found interesting things on it, some might hate it, and that's totally fine. As for Todd Philips' quality as a director, i can only judge based on my experience only, i can't speak for everyone, that would be totally unfair.  

6 hours ago, Didymus said:

This movie isn’t some underground independent artpiece. It’s a corporate product that didn’t meet its creative intentions. Fun that you liked it but there’s no way you can convincingly claim that the script and directing is objectively good. By what standard? Other Hollywood films? Todd’s biggest success: The Hangover?

Okay, following what you're saying, yes... it might be a corporate product, but it surely wasn't intended to be your typical mainstream hollywood product. It didn't play it safe, that alone, in my perspective, gives it a lot more value when you compare it to other recent hollywood productions, especially those that come from the cbm market. I personally found that the themes it explored and the way it did it were deep and interesting. They resonated a lot with me, and while i cannot claim that the execution is flawless because it's clearly not, i appreciate a lot its creative intentions and its willingness to not play it safe for the audience. It was a challenging movie for sure, one that shook me deeply to my core. So yes, while i'm not claiming this is some underground independent artpiece (which i never did, the movie doesn't even need to be that) yes i'm claiming that the film aimed for a more artistic, risky approach that went outside the norm, and for that, i appreciate it. 

6 hours ago, Didymus said:

It’s absolutely unfair to suggest that when people don’t like this Hollywood failure, they don’t get cinema or whatever lmfao.

Never claimed this... not even once. I just said that people, even if they are entitled to not like the film and the creative choices in it, they should atleast respect its boldness and what it tried to achieve, even if at the end of the day it didn't succeed with everyone. You know why? Because i find unfair how people calling him a hack and a bad director aren't judging him solely on the execution of his film, but rather they take it personal against him like he somehow insulted his entire audience with this movie and they're actively rooting for him to fail. In my opinion, that's totally immature and unnecessary, to overreact like that just because a director had a different vision that didn't align with what most people wanted.

At the end of the day, these are just movies, and like any work of art, they can cause various different reactions and interpretations. Two people can watch the same movie and found different things in it, sometimes totally opossite things from the other. But to feel this insulted and outraged at a movie just because it didn't gave you what you wanted, that's a whole other level of entitlement. The hate campaign is so forced at this point, it's just pure show and sensationalism because people love to engage in toxic behavior just because it entertains them. The way i've seen people purposefully spoiling the movie to "save people's money" it's just baffling, and very childish imo.

I think people need to grow a bit, because they can't even engage properly in the discussion of a film without getting all aggressive towards it, insulting the director, the cast, the writers, like if somehow the director killed their dog or something. That's the exact behavior i'm criticizing, and that's the behavior that is damaging cinema. Because to punish a director, independently of what you think of his directorial qualities or the movie's quality in general, just because he tried to step outside the norm and offer something different, it's a step back to auteur driven movies, because then people complain when they receive simplistic stuff made with no soul, with the sole purpose of generating money. You may not like Joker 2, but atleast it tried to say something, it tried to be something else, and even if it failed for most people, i still celebrate the fact that it could be made and that the director cared enough to present a distinct vision that its solely his. 

6 hours ago, Didymus said:

Go to a film festival and see for yourself what real creative directors do. Todd does not deserve any artistic respect. You’re only saying this because Gaga is involved.

Also, this is such an unfair thing to say, considering you don't know me nor know what types of movies do i like or which movies i've seen. For me, Todd deserves artistic respect just for the fact that he stood to his guts and delivered what he wanted to make. He made me feel something with both Joker movies, i found them inspiring, interesting and bold. I'm not saying this just because Gaga is involved, because at the end of the day, i'm just a guy who enjoys movies. The fact that i could find these movies enjoyable and you didn't it's not an excuse to act all superior and mighty like if you have some superior knowledge of filmmaking that you want to shove on my face. That's self-centered as hell and it's not the way i like to engage in discussions.  

With that said, i totally respect your views, you're entitled to find Todd Philips a bad director and his movies terrible. I still think there should be a more civilized and respectful way to engage in these types of conversations than trying to act superior all the time. These are just movies at the end of the day, they are made to be consumed and enjoyed in their own way. If you didn't enjoy one, and it isn't your cup of tea, it's also valid. What i don't like is when people fail to show respect or act maturely about it. You're not superior because you went to film festivals and saw what "real creatives" do, that's such an elitist way of looking at things. Even in film festivals, there are movies and directors of all kinds, and we should all celebrate auteurs trying to break the mold and daring to make something unique. Because when directors stop doing that, because they aren't allowed to do it anymore... that will be the real death of cinema. 

 

 

 

Edited October 7 by Ayden

[Didymus 34,379]

2 hours ago, Ayden said:

Also, this is such an unfair thing to say, considering you don't know me nor know what types of movies do i like or which movies i've seen. For me, Todd deserves artistic respect just for the fact that he stood to his guts and delivered what he wanted to make. He made me feel something with both Joker movies, i found them inspiring, interesting and bold. I'm not saying this just because Gaga is involved, because at the end of the day, i'm just a guy who enjoys movies. The fact that i could find these movies enjoyable and you didn't it's not an excuse to act all superior and mighty like if you have some superior knowledge of filmmaking that you want to shove on my face. That's self-centered as hell and it's not the way i like to engage in discussions.  

With that said, i totally respect your views, you're entitled to find Todd Philips a bad director and his movies terrible. I still think there should be a more civilized and respectful way to engage in these types of conversations than trying to act superior all the time. These are just movies at the end of the day, they are made to be consumed and enjoyed in their own way. If you didn't enjoy one, and it isn't your cup of tea, it's also valid. What i don't like is when people fail to show respect or act maturely about it. You're not superior because you went to film festivals and saw what "real creatives" do, that's such an elitist way of looking at things. Even in film festivals, there are movies and directors of all kinds, and we should all celebrate auteurs trying to break the mold and daring to make something unique. Because when directors stop doing that, because they aren't allowed to do it anymore... that will be the real death of cinema.

I agree with all that. I must have projected and thought you were acting all superior and self-centered I have a personal history of frustration around people defending rich Hollywood directors as auteurs when they **** up while they never support or care about independent filmmakers, so I admit I got carried away in that.

I do think you might be underestimating how much Todd's vision got decimated by industry compromises but we don't know that yet, I guess. Anyway, thanks for replying and clarifying, I appreciate it. I know what you mean now and I also don't identify with the overblown hate campaigns that are absurdly too personal and loaded.