Why Harlequin Exists: A Theory

[Oriane 20,751]

4 hours ago, zebrastripes said:

Okay so I can see this view and appreciate it,
but I have a different idea. This does spoil the end.

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She said goodbye to Joker because he wasn't in it for the vision, the dream. So she continues on with a vision of her own and calls it Harlequin.

 

Exactly! His own vision is tainted by his illness and traumas haunting him. She just loves the spirit of the character and the music sounds different to her.

[Nessun Dorma 6,674]

15 hours ago, Nycboy said:

Very valid counterpoint. Perhaps Todd starts editing Joker in April 2023, and by June 2023, Gaga starts to realize the direction the film is taking and decides that the best path forward is to create Harlequin? 

When we heard about Harlequin in June, she had already started working on it. My guess is that she was working simultaneously on Joker and Harlequin. What I’m saying is that based on the dates that we have, she probably saw the final cut only by October (at least). 

[LanaLana 10]

17 hours ago, MOT said:

Good thread this. I really want to know the full story of this movie, every nook and cranny.

The OP makes a good point imo. Gaga randomly releases a song called DIE With A SMILE a couple of weeks before JFAD and it has no connection to the movie ? I'm just not having that. Also, haven't seen the movie yet, but I gather there's a lot of smoking ... why was she smoking in the video ? Very odd and random if it's not a nod to JFAD. And what evidence do we have for the story that it was Bruno's song and she just helped him finish it ? Only one piece of evidence that I'm aware of .... she said it. It's credited as Gaga and Bruno, it's on her youtube channel and when they performed it live Bruno said 'I'd like to thank Lady Gaga for letting me be on her record'. When I heard that first I thought maybe he was being snarky about the fact that it was his song and she was taking more credit thsn she deserved, but .... maybe he was just being honest.

So I want to know the truth about that song. Where did it come from ? Why was it released immediately before JFAD ? Why was Harelequin made ? How the hell is Michael's name all over it ? Why was JFAD marketed as 50/50 Phoenix/Gaga only to end up as nothing like it. Why were they rewriting scripts ? Why were we shown so much footage that didn't make it into the movie ? Did they decide to make it a musical first and then hire Gaga, or vice versa ? How were things on set ? Were there fights in the trailer ? If so, did Gaga bring Peter ? I want answers.

I saw people theorizing that it wasn't released under Interscope cause Bruno's label is doing some reorganizing - https://hitsdailydouble.com/near_truths_item&id=342515. Ava Max who is in the same label tweeted this recently: https://x.com/AvaMax/status/1837561924042866843

Maybe they need more time to reorganize everything so that could be the reason why the song was released under Interscope. Most people agreed that the song sounds Bruno coded and looks like every aspect of music production for DWAS is primarily from him and his team. Most of the songwriters, producers, and even the music engineers are from his team too, along with the music video directors and photo/design of the single cover. They probably made a deal like we'll handle the promo, the music video will be uploaded in Gaga’s channel and her name will appear first since the song is under her label.

[MOT 2,984]

1 hour ago, LanaLana said:

I saw people theorizing that it wasn't released under Interscope cause Bruno's label is doing some reorganizing - https://hitsdailydouble.com/near_truths_item&id=342515. Ava Max who is in the same label tweeted this recently: https://x.com/AvaMax/status/1837561924042866843

Maybe they need more time to reorganize everything so that could be the reason why the song was released under Interscope. Most people agreed that the song sounds Bruno coded and looks like every aspect of music production for DWAS is primarily from him and his team. Most of the songwriters, producers, and even the music engineers are from his team too, along with the music video directors and photo/design of the single cover. They probably made a deal like we'll handle the promo, the music video will be uploaded in Gaga’s channel and her name will appear first since the song is under her label.

I refuse to accept any of this on the basis that it's not as interesting as the 'Gaga wrote it herself but is pretending that Bruno did for some reason to do with behind-the-scenes JFAD intrigue' narrative.

[Guest]

Can't you all assume the movie didn't do well and move on? All these conspiracy theories and paranoids were funny at first but now it seems you are not accepting reality. Gaga herself said when she started working on Harlequin, that DWAS was a Bruno song... But despite that you decide to believe she was lying and keep on constructing weird theories? 

[StrawberryBlond 14,775]

I was wondering something similar myself. To release her own solo version of the album alongside the official soundtrack of mostly duets is indeed a choice. Harlequin fully realises Gaga's talent and gets us to see the entire version of Harley who should've been a co-lead or even had her own movie. I totally think she realised that Folie A Deux was going to be dramatically cut down and wanted the full song out there in existence above all else because she wanted the world to see that she could write an old timey jazz song in 2024 and have it sound totally classic and she was clearly very proud of it. And she also really wanted Happy Mistake to be heard but Todd insisted on only putting covers in the movie.

As for DWAS, I don't think that was written for Joker, it being Bruno's song originally totally sounds plausible as it sounds lifted from a lot of this work, especially his most recent Silk Sonic album. But Gaga saw its potential to be connected and made the video very Joker coded by giving it a 70's set, 70's outfits and 70's smoking indoors. The song was released to get her fans pumped for the movie, keep them going until the movie came around, provide a decent hit for her before her album and provide a nice transition from no music to a new album by getting radio and public onside with proof that she's still relevant and can therefore have her new music supported.

[MOT 2,984]

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

As for DWAS, I don't think that was written for Joker, it being Bruno's song originally totally sounds plausible as it sounds lifted from a lot of this work, especially his most recent Silk Sonic album.

Hmm. It sounds a bit waltzy to me. Now ... waltz .....waltz ..... where have I come across that recently ?

I just mention that in passing. I'm sure it's of no significance. 🙂

 

 

[Gaga Scholar 119]

On 10/7/2024 at 4:51 AM, MOT said:

Hmm. It sounds a bit waltzy to me. Now ... waltz .....waltz ..... where have I come across that recently ?

I just mention that in passing. I'm sure it's of no significance. 🙂

 

 

Before I was done reading everything, I wanted to mention this very point. "Die with a Smile" is a waltz, and there's enough fishy about this whole thing to use some critical thinking and wonder if there's more to its origins. I agree that the song is very "Bruno-fied," AND it could be that Gaga had some version of the song and wanted to see what Bruno could do with it after it wasn't used. 

Maybe there are aspects of this that reflect more of a "both/and" situation. The truth probably lies somewhere in between what we've been told and our own speculation.

Anyway, Gaga reiterated in one or more interviews recently that she has lied a lot throughout her career, which is interesting. And think about all the times we've thought one thing about her and then found out something else. "Marry the Night"'s prelude talks about Gaga making something beautiful out of not-so-great things...her "ARTPOP could mean anything," etc. 

Gaga is like a real life Arthur Fleck living between reality and fantasy at all times--for sure, "the Joker is she." 

This is a fun topic. I'm not sure I'd be as big a fan if Gaga were easy to figure out! 

Edited October 11, 2024 by Gaga Scholar

[Lextyr97 19,755]

On 10/5/2024 at 1:43 PM, Rahrahbitchson said:

Wasn't DWAS Bruno's song? I heard that he asked her to jump on it, what is the truth?

I thought that too but Bruno himself said at his concert that Gaga released a song and was nice enough to feature him on it. More or less his words

[MEM 3,114]

Sorry but just imagining Joaquin trying to sing Bruno's parts in DWAS... 

   

[Borisapillar 9,061]

1 hour ago, MEM said:

Sorry but just imagining Joaquin trying to sing Bruno's parts in DWAS... 

   

girl he could barely belch out a bass note in that movie 😆 

[darkgaga 4,743]

Omg all this fanfics about DWAS. It isnt for the Joker, and it never was. Just because the word smile is in it. And dont say: “oh, but there is also Die, and that relates to Joker”. No. Just no. Why would Gaga and Bruno lie about it? The aesthetics isnt even the same. DWAS is 60s, Joker is 80s. It was just a song for both of them to get back in the picture, before both releasing their own music again. 
 

And imo she did Harlequin because she liked the music, and wanted to release those songs with her own spin. A jazz-y album, without Tony, and it was a nice coincidence that Joker had that style, so why not

[Gaga Scholar 119]

This is a great Switched on Pop podcast episode about "Die With A Smile" that posits similar theories supported by possible evidence. Enjoy! 

[Panchecco 17,529]

the choice of singing "bad" was her own but I agree with Harlequin being made to further develop Lee as a character and Gaga's own interpretation of her 

[JINNOCIDE 3,820]

Y'all really have to look and find ways to justify Gaga being misused on the movie

She wouldn't have the time to make the Harlequin album if she wasn't satisfied with the final movie cut. She said herself she wasn't done with the character. She talked about a secret project waaaaaaaay before.

DWAS is mostly related to a "song for Joker" because of Gaga's eye makeup, let's be real  She said multiply times that it was a Bruno song and he called her to join in. If she bought the song or he gave it to her, we'll never know until one of them says it.

The movie flopped by today's grossings standards (and in comparison to Joker 1), it's ok. Her acting was praised.

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