Harris advocates for ceasefire at AZ rally

[Othon 34,299]

2 minutes ago, MessyTop said:

Ok I agree, even if she says that, she can’t actually do it right now as a VP. I hope she actually does that ASAP, I have faith she will, she must. She’s in a very tricky spot playing old school politics with the old school democrats and trying to navigate the establishment, I get it. Just know that we all understand the importance of this, is a NOW issue. It is, but having her win the election is also a now issue for us Americans.

1. Her own campaign staff have said, multiple times, that she won't commit to an arms embargo (also in my original post), which is why people need to stop sh*tting on protestors and baselessly believing that she's going to fix this when there's absolutely nothing to indicate that that's the case. She's been extremely pro-Israel throughout her entire career. As of now, her own staff are flat out saying that she's not going to stop giving Israel bombs. She's not going to change unless people force her to through repeated, aggressive protests.

2. I'm an American. And, to be clear, people outside of the US have every right to weigh in on our elections. Our politics have a significant impact on the rest of the world, as evidenced by the subject matter of this thread.

[MessyTop 14,389]

5 minutes ago, Othon said:

1. Her own campaign staff have said, multiple times, that she won't commit to an arms embargo (also in my original post), which is why people need to stop sh*tting on protestors and baselessly believing that she's going to fix this when there's absolutely nothing to indicate that that's the case. She's been extremely pro-Israel throughout her entire career. As of now, her own staff are flat out saying that she's not going to stop giving Israel bombs. She's not going to change unless people force her to through repeated, aggressive protests.

2. I'm an American. And, to be clear, people outside of the US have every right to weigh in on our elections. Our politics have a significant impact on the rest of the world, as evidenced by the subject matter of this thread.

Ok so if you say she’s not going to change, what now? What’s the solution? You clearly thing and believe she won’t change, so I want to know What the solution is. 
aggressive protests have done nothing in the US, so that’s that? Just keep doing it? 
people on Twitter are getting reported to the FBI for threatening the VP, is a very tricky thing to navigate 

[Morphine Prince 109,683]

I agree that until I see actual change either from the Biden admin or the Harris admin (if she wins) it is all lip service. This is the one issue where I completely disagree with both Democrats and Republicans and I unfortunately have to put it aside.... Harris is the clear choice of who should win this election. That opinion isn't going to change...

But the way some of you are trying to completely silence protestors is disturbing. Politicians SHOULD be pushed to either vocalize their opinions or to make promises etc.

In fact, the right to protest in enshrined in the US constitution. 

It's easy to fall into sports team mode and want Harris to coast through the election. You all need to realize this is a very serious issue and the Biden admin is facilitating a genocide through arm sales and financial support to Israel. Harris SHOULD be pushed on this issue and she WILL have to make decisions regarding this genocide if she wins. 

This conflict is something this administration will have to answer for someday. 

[jimmytimestep 2,941]

2 hours ago, faysalaaa said:

I also think its strategically a mistake to include Biden, when she needs to distance herself from his approach to Israel.

I agree, but she has a bunch of democratic political donors to appease that specifically gave their money to the Biden campaign.

my opinion; she’s in a tough position…and is delivering. 

[4th Time Around 5,059]

She is over 40,000 dead Palestinians too late

This is hollow lip service to win brownie points until I actually see real action on the part of her administration

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,322]

1 hour ago, Othon said:

...The thing I literally said she should do in my post? Commit to an arms embargo. Commit to stop giving Israel the bombs they're using to carry out a genocide of hundreds of thousands of people. AKA, the bare minimum.

Yeah, committing to an arms embargo while Israel is on the precipice of war with Iran is political suicide lmao 

[Didymus 34,380]

Imagine Jill Stein was as realistic an option as her. She would flat out say Israel was committing a genocide and she would end the arms transfer the minute she became president. It is so otherworldly how Democrats have to play these games and can never truly speak out against, well, a genocide.

If she doesn't aggressively push for Palestinian rights after she wins, the sad reality is that her voters will be like "well, she did more than others!" when it is essentially yet another death sentence for thousands of innocent civilians. The Democratic Party is just weird af.

[MessyTop 14,389]

7 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Imagine Jill Stein was as realistic an option as her. She would flat out say Israel was committing a genocide and she would end the arms transfer the minute she became president. It is so otherworldly how Democrats have to play these games and can never truly speak out against, well, a genocide.

If she doesn't aggressively push for Palestinian rights after she wins, the sad reality is that her voters will be like "well, she did more than others!" when it is essentially yet another death sentence for thousands of innocent civilians. The Democratic Party is just weird af.

Didymus I hear you and I feel you, but honestly I don’t think Kamala nor any voter want innocent civilians to die, we truly don’t. Politics are very complicated and hard to navigate. There’s LBGTQI+ folk about to lose ALL their rights if Trump wins. We are good people trying to do the best we can. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,322]

5 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Imagine Jill Stein was as realistic an option as her. She would flat out say Israel was committing a genocide and she would end the arms transfer the minute she became president. It is so otherworldly how Democrats have to play these games and can never truly speak out against, well, a genocide.

If she doesn't aggressively push for Palestinian rights after she wins, the sad reality is that her voters will be like "well, she did more than others!" when it is essentially yet another death sentence for thousands of innocent civilians. The Democratic Party is just weird af.

I hear you, but Jill Stein is also just…so deeply unserious lolol. Like this is a woman who served on the city council for like 2 weeks, has no real political experience, zero political allies, and only ever comes out of the woodwork every four years to run for president. I seriously wish third parties like the Green Party had a more legitimate infrastructure and more genuine political talent on the local, state, and federal level. 
 

To the point of US politicians not speaking out against Israel’s genocide + apartheid in Palestine: it’s the unfortunate byproduct of the US flouting international law for decades. It’s disgraceful, but it’s not going to change overnight, either. I honestly think a longstanding policy goal of the left in the US should be to elect enough members of Congress who believe in codifying compliance with the ICC + ICJ into US law. That’s gonna take a shitton of work, but it’d definitely be worthwhile. 

[MessyTop 14,389]

4 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I hear you, but Jill Stein is also just…so deeply unserious lolol. Like this is a woman who served on the city council for like 2 weeks, has no real political experience, zero political allies, and only ever comes out of the woodwork every four years to run for president. I seriously wish third parties like the Green Party had a more legitimate infrastructure and more genuine political talent on the local, state, and federal level. 
 

To the point of US politicians not speaking out against Israel’s genocide + apartheid in Palestine: it’s the unfortunate byproduct of the US flouting international law for decades. It’s disgraceful, but it’s not going to change overnight, either. I honestly think a longstanding policy goal of the left in the US should be to elect enough members of Congress who believe in codifying compliance with the ICC + ICJ into US law. That’s gonna take a shitton of work, but it’d definitely be worthwhile. 

Thank you for your post. There’s wishful thinking and reality, we are truly good people trying to do the right thing. Politics is that politics but somehow folk think politics is black and white and sadly is more complicated than that. 

[Didymus 34,380]

Just now, MessyTop said:

Didymus I hear you and I feel you, but honestly I don’t think Kamala nor any voter want innocent civilians to die, we truly don’t. Politics are very complicated and hard to navigate. There’s LBGTQI+ folk about to lose ALL their right if Trump wins. We are good people trying to do the best we can. 

I know that, I do. This is the result of decades of mostly hidden foreign politics and it will move at a snail pace necessarily. As someone who has been on the streets for over ten years now, the fact that people on this forum, even, are already so aware is truly amazing. The progress has been extremely fast on the level of public awareness and now it's bumping up against bureaucracy. And that sucks 'cause, yes, "morals" aren't currency a politician can work with.

I guess in my mind Kamala is gonna win, period. I can't imagine she won't but I know from conversations with American friends that this optimism is not fair and people are genuinely scared of the real chance that an actual fascist wins. I wanna be more respectul of that, because I know that feeling from recent European elections and it does make you wanna fight for the best next option even if it is also not ideal.

[Didymus 34,380]

6 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I hear you, but Jill Stein is also just…so deeply unserious lolol. Like this is a woman who served on the city council for like 2 weeks, has no real political experience, zero political allies, and only ever comes out of the woodwork every four years to run for president. I seriously wish third parties like the Green Party had a more legitimate infrastructure on the local, state, and federal level. 

Well, what do you think of some people's suggestion that they should vote for Democrats and then mass protest that they want Democrats in power to create that legitimate infrastructure for third parties? I always thought that sounded smart and compelling, even though I understand not that many people would be motivated to actually do it.

[MessyTop 14,389]

Just now, Didymus said:

I know that, I do. This is the result of decades of mostly hidden foreign politics and it will move at a snail pace necessarily. As someone who has been on the streets for over ten years now, the fact that people on this forum, even, are already so aware is truly amazing. The progress has been extremely fast on the level of public awareness and now it's bumping up against bureaucracy. And that sucks 'cause, yes, "morals" aren't currency a politician can work with.

I guess in my mind Kamala is gonna win, period. I can't imagine she won't but I know from conversations with American friends that this optimism is not fair and people are genuinely scared of the real chance that an actual fascist wins. I wanna be more respectul of that, because I know that feeling from recent European elections and it does make you wanna fight for the best next option even if it is also not ideal.

I’m still truly afraid of Trump winning, as a gay immigrant it scares me, and trust we are trying everything we can for Kamala to win and make a difference. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,322]

1 minute ago, Didymus said:

Well, what do you think of some people's suggestion that they should vote for Democrats and then mass protest that they want Democrats in power to create that legitimate infrastructure for third parties? I always thought that sounded smart and compelling, even though I understand not that many people would be motivated to actually do it.

I think if people wanted to go full court press and keep the pressure on their elected pols for an extended period of time, there could be potential for change there. I hate to be the methodical bureaucrat on this one, but I honestly think that the best way to open up the floodgates for more direct democratic representation in the US would be a multipronged series of reforms: full send on passing ranked choice voting in all 50 states, ballot initiatives to help enact a national popular vote system for Pres elections via the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (need 270 votes in the compact and there’s currently 209, so we’re much closer than most people think), and, simultaneously, recruiting and running Green Party candidates at the local and state level to build that infrastructure from the ground up (grooming a new generation of talent while potentially giving a future Green Gov and maybe even Pres allies that they can work with). If we hit all of those marks, which could realistically be done before the next presidential election, the landscape of electoral politics would be much more open/democratic. 

[GregJA 5,536]

She won’t do anything, she never has accomplished anything and it’s not like she’s not in power now.