Racists Are Rioting In England As We Speak

[Axl Jax 634]

8 minutes ago, HelloHangoverz said:

To be honest, these concerns aren't valid if they're founded on straight up lies. They said this Axel guy was a Muslim, that turned out to be false, they said he was an immigrant, that turned out to be false. It's not like we should just "go with it anyway" just because there's a strength of feeling. This had nothing to do with immigration. Like let's respect the truth above all else and not let that slide for anything.

I see what you mean about tribalism though.

I think the problem is though, these are genuine concerns people have, even if they're based on misinformation. History has taught us this. I'm not liking this 1939 feeling that seems to be going on everywhere. Somethings brewing, I said to a friend back in May/June that it feels like we're in the calm before the storm. This all going on right now along with the stuff in the middle east and the upcoming US election (oh and the attempted assassination of Trump) feels like a perfect example of the phrase "perfect storm"

[Celloo Deng 56,332]

2 minutes ago, HelloHangoverz said:

To be honest, these concerns aren't valid if they're founded on straight up lies. They said this Axel guy was a Muslim, that turned out to be false, they said he was an immigrant, that turned out to be false. It's not like we should just "go with it anyway" just because there's a strength of feeling. This had nothing to do with immigration. Like let's respect the truth above all else and not let that slide for anything.

I see what you mean about tribalism though.

I agree, and to add to this, even if he was Muslim or an immigrant it shouldn’t give them any reason to go around attacking those communities. This country has a deeply sowed problem with Islamophobia because of the drivel that western governments pedalled for so many years

[Axl Jax 634]

13 minutes ago, Leblanc said:

Genuinely appreciate you writing this, I think any genuine attempt to de-escalate what's going on right now has to be willing to accept that misinformation or not, there are genuine valid concerns and grievances which often get labelled as whatever-phobic. Which tbh that attitude has created the 'common sense' right wing pendulum swing we are seeing right now. 

Honestly it was stupidly refreshing to hear someone on some podcast the other day talk about being asked 'if they're left or right?' and them just being like 'well, on what issue? what's the issue?' we need to bring that attitude back to fight the bs tribalism politics has become.

 

Thank you, I've got into a bit of trouble before for points I try to make but when I actually sit down like this and formulate a long message/comment in a more articulate way, I think my point comes across better lol.

[Leblanc 2,494]

12 minutes ago, HelloHangoverz said:

To be honest, these concerns aren't valid if they're founded on straight up lies. They said this Axel guy was a Muslim, that turned out to be false, they said he was an immigrant, that turned out to be false. It's not like we should just "go with it anyway" just because there's a strength of feeling. This had nothing to do with immigration. Like let's respect the truth above all else and not let that slide for anything.

I see what you mean about tribalism though.

I think you might miss my point. I wasn't condoning the riots at all, I just feel like there might have been less people willing to lend an ear to those people in the first place had they not already been treated like a racist for those concerns. And that could have decreased some of the turn out (honestly this is just my opinion so no idea whether that's a correct judgement on my part but I stand by it).

The left, predominantly online, nowadays always turns me off in particular when two things happen;

1. Acting like being on the left makes you inherently morally superior. Absolutely against my core values.

2. Assuming I have to be on the left because I'm mixed race and gay. Don't get me wrong, I do vote that way for those policies concerning that. But no one like to feel like they dont get a choice. Honestly I feel like the reason the previous Conservative government was quite diverse is in some part because of this feeling. Its genuinely insulting.

[Axl Jax 634]

1 hour ago, Leblanc said:

I think you might miss my point. I wasn't condoning the riots at all, I just feel like there might have been less people willing to lend an ear to those people in the first place had they not already been treated like a racist for those concerns. And that could have decreased some of the turn out (honestly this is just my opinion so no idea whether that's a correct judgement on my part but I stand by it).

The left, predominantly online, nowadays always turns me off in particular when two things happen;

1. Acting like being on the left makes you inherently morally superior. Absolutely against my core values.

2. Assuming I have to be on the left because I'm mixed race and gay. Don't get me wrong, I do vote that way for those policies concerning that. But no one like to feel like they dont get a choice. Honestly I feel like the reason the previous Conservative government was quite diverse is in some part because of this feeling. Its genuinely insulting.

Yep. Also another thing I'm getting sick of by fellow liberals is this - look at the title of this thread, and several comments. I got someone quoting me with a 'yikes' meme even though I repeatedly said you can't paint all muslims (or a group) with the same brush over the actions of a few, yet a lot of people on the left do the same toward people who think differently to them 🙄 imagine if I made a thread or comment saying "Migrants are grooming our children" or "Muslims are suicide bombing again" - I'd get a warning point at the very least!

The best thing both sides can learn from this is not to lump a whole group of people together due to actions of a few! Many of these protests over the years had people of many different races, ethnicities, religions etc. The media did this with the Nottingham lockdown protests (two of which I happened to be there, not for the protest but because they were pretty much outside my block of flats).

However many feel they've been gaslighted by things like two-tier policing which is a big part of why these protests are getting worse and turning into riots - yes it's wrong but everyone has a breaking point. Keir Starmer and other MPs calling them all racist and far-right isn't helping. Many of these people have first hand experiences that cause them to join these protests, from people in small communities who all of a sudden feel outnumbered by migrants being put in big hotels in their area, all the way up to people who are just racist thugs, and everything in-between. Instead of putting a bandaid over the wound we need to get to the core of it.

[Karl 3,575]

43 minutes ago, Axl Jax said:

Yep. Also another thing I'm getting sick of by fellow liberals is this - look at the title of this thread, and several comments. I got someone quoting me with a 'yikes' meme even though I repeatedly said you can't paint all muslims (or a group) with the same brush over the actions of a few, yet a lot of people on the left do the same toward people who think differently to them 🙄 imagine if I made a thread or comment saying "Migrants are grooming our children" or "Muslims are suicide bombing again" - I'd get a warning point at the very least!

The best thing both sides can learn from this is not to lump a whole group of people together due to actions of a few! Many of these protests over the years had people of many different races, ethnicities, religions etc. The media did this with the Nottingham lockdown protests (two of which I happened to be there, not for the protest but because they were pretty much outside my block of flats).

However many feel they've been gaslighted by things like two-tier policing which is a big part of why these protests are getting worse and turning into riots - yes it's wrong but everyone has a breaking point. Keir Starmer and other MPs calling them all racist and far-right isn't helping. Many of these people have first hand experiences that cause them to join these protests, from people in small communities who all of a sudden feel outnumbered by migrants being put in big hotels in their area, all the way up to people who are just racist thugs, and everything in-between. Instead of putting a bandaid over the wound we need to get to the core of it.

I just wanna know how migrants being in hotels directly affects these people's lives? It's just a scapegoat for the failings of the last 12 years of Tory rule, people are hard done by and blaming the migrants because of the right wing press, social media as well as the Tories themselves using stuff like stop the boats etc. I find it funny how priti Patel said she condemns the riots yet constantly used anti migrants rhetoric during her time as an MP. 

You can't decide to riot because you don't like seeing as many brown people walking round the supermarket near you speaking a different language. 

[HelloHangoverz 17,452]

2 minutes ago, Karl said:

I find it funny how priti Patel said she condemns the riots yet constantly used anti migrants rhetoric during her time as an MP. 

I was disgusted at that. Clearly just positioning herself as the 'center ground' candidate for the leadership. These people couldn't give a **** about the damage they inflict on this country.

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,207]

59 minutes ago, Axl Jax said:

Yep. Also another thing I'm getting sick of by fellow liberals is this - look at the title of this thread, and several comments. I got someone quoting me with a 'yikes' meme even though I repeatedly said you can't paint all muslims (or a group) with the same brush over the actions of a few, yet a lot of people on the left do the same toward people who think differently to them 🙄 imagine if I made a thread or comment saying "Migrants are grooming our children" or "Muslims are suicide bombing again" - I'd get a warning point at the very least!

The best thing both sides can learn from this is not to lump a whole group of people together due to actions of a few! Many of these protests over the years had people of many different races, ethnicities, religions etc. The media did this with the Nottingham lockdown protests (two of which I happened to be there, not for the protest but because they were pretty much outside my block of flats).

However many feel they've been gaslighted by things like two-tier policing which is a big part of why these protests are getting worse and turning into riots - yes it's wrong but everyone has a breaking point. Keir Starmer and other MPs calling them all racist and far-right isn't helping. Many of these people have first hand experiences that cause them to join these protests, from people in small communities who all of a sudden feel outnumbered by migrants being put in big hotels in their area, all the way up to people who are just racist thugs, and everything in-between. Instead of putting a bandaid over the wound we need to get to the core of it.

I mean that comment about not judging all Muslims was largely couched in comments that justify the intentions of the rioters (which you go on to do, again, in this comment). If someone is being roused to violence by misinformation, I don’t see the point in legitimizing their concerns. As a counter example, conservatives in the US can believe that the 2020 election was stolen all they want, and it will never justify the events of January 6 and the threats and violence and intimidation faced by poll workers leading up to that point. In both instances, these acts were perpetrated largely by adults that should know better/be capable of reasoning, so I see no reason to patronize them.

[Celloo Deng 56,332]

1 hour ago, Axl Jax said:

Yep. Also another thing I'm getting sick of by fellow liberals is this - look at the title of this thread, and several comments. I got someone quoting me with a 'yikes' meme even though I repeatedly said you can't paint all muslims (or a group) with the same brush over the actions of a few, yet a lot of people on the left do the same toward people who think differently to them 🙄 imagine if I made a thread or comment saying "Migrants are grooming our children" or "Muslims are suicide bombing again" - I'd get a warning point at the very least!

The best thing both sides can learn from this is not to lump a whole group of people together due to actions of a few! Many of these protests over the years had people of many different races, ethnicities, religions etc. The media did this with the Nottingham lockdown protests (two of which I happened to be there, not for the protest but because they were pretty much outside my block of flats).

However many feel they've been gaslighted by things like two-tier policing which is a big part of why these protests are getting worse and turning into riots - yes it's wrong but everyone has a breaking point. Keir Starmer and other MPs calling them all racist and far-right isn't helping. Many of these people have first hand experiences that cause them to join these protests, from people in small communities who all of a sudden feel outnumbered by migrants being put in big hotels in their area, all the way up to people who are just racist thugs, and everything in-between. Instead of putting a bandaid over the wound we need to get to the core of it.

I'm trying to understand your perspective and you said a couple of times that you aren't justifying the riots but it kinda sounds like you are. I know people feel hard done by and life is miserable and expensive right now, but I just don't see it as an excuse to racially and violently attack innocent people, loot Greggs, attempt to set hotels on fire, throw bricks into peoples' houses, set fire to cars, punch police officers (ironically the very people who would have been protecting those little girls from the Southport suspect). They are destroying everyday communities that don't deserve it, and all triggered by false information. It seems as though it has gone beyond any sense of reason and is just the most bigoted and ignorant in society having a great time wreaking havoc.

[HelloHangoverz 17,452]

 

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,207]

2 minutes ago, HelloHangoverz said:

 

But she’s just a widdle baby motivated by economic anxiety. She didn’t mean it 🥺

[Celloo Deng 56,332]

2 minutes ago, HelloHangoverz said:

 

gross. and not the first if I recall, didn't a tory mp also tweet their support? i mean, even nigel farage has (albiet feebly) called for an end. tories couldn't stoop any lower

[HelloHangoverz 17,452]

Also two-tier policing is an absolute myth. The idea that there is an institutional flowchart to do X if the person in front of you is native English, and do Y if they're not, is just absolutely ridiculous. Of course there is no such thing. It is a fairy tale made up by people who have a grievance with the police. They're entitled to be annoyed and I've heard of some stories myself where the police response was absolutely woeful.

But we cannot concede even an inch into "oh, these people have valid concerns" kind of thinking. No, they really don't. They're taking their frustration out on people who it's got nothing to do with. Members on this site have said they've been walking down the street and have been abused and harassed. What's it got to do with that member? It's scary. 

[HelloHangoverz 17,452]

1 minute ago, Cello said:

gross. and not the first if I recall, didn't a tory mp also tweet their support? i mean, even nigel farage has (albiet feebly) called for an end. tories couldn't stoop any lower

What's funny is further down the article her lawyer comments "She made a mistake, but she's not racist".....

...

...

Spoiler

Also not sure about the other tory mp. I think I heard something about it but not sure

 

[HelloHangoverz 17,452]

4 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

But she’s just a widdle baby motivated by economic anxiety. She didn’t mean it 🥺

LITERALLY