EV Tax Introduced In Alberta

[Economy 52,844]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/oil-rich-canadian-province-to-adopt-new-tax-on-electric-vehicles-1.2041222

 

Canadas Oil rich Province of Alberta that has often had tensions and disagreements with the Federal Government over things such as Carbon Taxes and Pipeline approvals has come up with new legislation that may further add tension

 

Alberta plans to add a small $200 tax to electric vehicles on the grounds that they are heavier and cause more wear and tear on roads which are maintained by tax payers

[gabeoz 7,915]

Conservatives are so annoying 

[Conservative Mom 655]

um enjoy the new tax folks 

this is also happening in some progressive states to compensate for the reduction in fuel excise revenue, your governments always come up with something to love you 

[GagaSine 7,464]

Lmao, wow.

[Perfect Celebrity 1,617]

This is a thing in Texas too… still worth not paying for gas/oil changes tbh 

On my previous car, an oil change was at least $100 and I had to get 3-4 a year 

[TEANUS 16,140]

Even more reason that purchasing EV cars and/or expecting that our society could switch to them simply isn’t practical (yet)

[Economy 52,844]

6 minutes ago, TEANUS said:

Even more reason that purchasing EV cars and/or expecting that our society could switch to them simply isn’t practical (yet)

Because of this tax? I mean its small. I doubt it will truly deter an interested buyer but im like why the hell do this

[TEANUS 16,140]

1 minute ago, Economy said:

Because of this tax? I mean its small. I doubt it will truly deter an interested buyer but im like why the hell do this

Not just because of this tax. It’s def a turn off tho, whether it’s big or small would be from consumer to consumer I guess. If it’s a one time fee I guess it’s not that bad. But also now knowing that they wear the roads faster and that the vast majority of our power supply is still fossil fuels and our power grid couldn’t handle a completely EV society just makes them still so pointless to me. And those batteries are god awful too. I think they’re great in theory, but they don’t work (yet) and shouldn’t be pushed the way they are (yet)

[RAMROD 117,026]

How big is EV users in Alberta for them to introduce this law? 

[Nemo 4,410]

2 hours ago, TEANUS said:

Not just because of this tax. It’s def a turn off tho, whether it’s big or small would be from consumer to consumer I guess. If it’s a one time fee I guess it’s not that bad. But also now knowing that they wear the roads faster and that the vast majority of our power supply is still fossil fuels and our power grid couldn’t handle a completely EV society just makes them still so pointless to me. And those batteries are god awful too. I think they’re great in theory, but they don’t work (yet) and shouldn’t be pushed the way they are (yet)

The fee is obnoxious, but trivial compared to the other costs of owning a car. That's not subjective.

EVs do not wear the roads faster, at least not in any meaningful way. EVs tend to be slightly heavier than comparable ICE cars, but only slightly -- the heavy batteries are offset by the lack of components like engines. (!) Meanwhile, the vast, vast majority of road damage is done by the truly heavy vehicles -- tractor trailers and the like.

"Vast majority of our power supply is still fossil fuels" -- it varies depending on where you are, but generally, no. In my state, for example, our electricity is only about half fossil-sourced, with nuclear and renewables making up the rest. That's the biggest advantage of electricity -- flexibility in sources. And of course, this equation is changing all the time, with more and more generation moving to renewables. But we can only take advantage of that by electrifying.

Yet, even if it were true that it was all fossil-based, EVs would still have the advantage, because they use their "fuel" more efficiently. When you see EVs rated by "MPGe" -- miles per gallon equivalent -- this (movement per energy content) is what's being compared... and if you do actually look at those numbers, you'll see EVs rated in the low 100's. (A gasoline car averages 26 MPG. A really good hybrid -- already half-electric -- might manage 50.) And there are other ways to compare -- CO2 emissions, operating cost -- which can favor EVs even more.

"Power grid" -- my usual response to this talking point is that I'll leave worrying about that to the electric companies, whose job it is -- and what are they doing? Well, they're promoting EV adoption, heavily. Seems they're not too concerned.

"Don't work (yet)" -- uh, I've been driving an EV, as my only car, for nine years already. It definitely works.

[Emvee 8,827]

It’s really a miracle that we’ve had any innovation happen when conservatives and reactionaries exist to preserve existing power dynamics and the status quo. Almost by definition. 

[Economy 52,844]

10 hours ago, TEANUS said:

Not just because of this tax. It’s def a turn off tho, whether it’s big or small would be from consumer to consumer I guess. If it’s a one time fee I guess it’s not that bad. But also now knowing that they wear the roads faster and that the vast majority of our power supply is still fossil fuels and our power grid couldn’t handle a completely EV society just makes them still so pointless to me. And those batteries are god awful too. I think they’re great in theory, but they don’t work (yet) and shouldn’t be pushed the way they are (yet)

I have a few issues with this

 

First of all power supply is not mostly fossil fuels everywhere. In my Province for example (biggest in Canada) its 51% nuclear, and nearly 30% wind, solar and hydro-electricity. Only a little over 20% still comes from fossil fuels (mostly natural gas plants that bridge gaps during times of the day demand is higher or when renewable power drops due to intermitency, but that means nearly 80% of power is still clean!)

 

And even places where its mostly fossil fuels... transition is a multi year process. If you wait until your grid is clean THEN start the EV transition ur gonna delay everything like 15-20 years cuz once a car is on the road it usually lasts at lest 15 years and infrastructure has to be built on demand as well along with growing fleet.

 

So u cant just look at where the power grid is at now in areas where its still dirtier you also have to look at where its going over the next 20+ years

 

I do agree with you about bateries being bad for environement. But at the moment i think net harm is still lower than fossil fuels. Fossil fuels to a large degree also involve destroying earth anyway to dig up (and more and more so as conventional reserves dry up outside middle east and move on to shale and oil sands).

 

Also global warming from emisions is very arguably a more immediate threat to planet than open mining so its still the lesser of two evils in my opinion

[Bronco 24,974]

24 minutes ago, Economy said:

And even places where its mostly fossil fuels... transition is a multi year process. If you wait until your grid is clean THEN start the EV transition ur gonna delay everything like 15-20 years cuz once a car is on the road it usually lasts at lest 15 years and infrastructure has to be built on demand as well along with growing fleet.

Plus if you think EVs and charging ports etc are expensive to purchase now. 

Wait till they're the majority market shareholder/only shareholder and there are no longer targeted incetives designed to get people to switch. 

Also to people bothered about road-wear. Vote for politicians who will prioritise public infrastructure. Best way to reduce the cost of transport on the tax payer is an effective mass-transit system in urban areas.

[Economy 52,844]

38 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Plus if you think EVs and charging ports etc are expensive to purchase now. 

Wait till they're the majority market shareholder/only shareholder and there are no longer targeted incetives designed to get people to switch. 

Also to people bothered about road-wear. Vote for politicians who will prioritise public infrastructure. Best way to reduce the cost of transport on the tax payer is an effective mass-transit system in urban areas.

I mean that part im not as concerned about. Once it becomes big industry you will get economics of scale and better integrated supply chains. Without subsities it will probably still be cheaper than now for stuff like port installation

 

But regardless the point stands. There is no reason to delay.

[Bronco 24,974]

5 minutes ago, Economy said:

I mean that part im not as concerned about. Once it becomes big industry you will get economics of scale and better integrated supply chains. Without subsities it will probably still be cheaper than now for stuff like port installation

 

But regardless the point stands. There is no reason to delay.

I definitely agree, but I think the uneven uptake & promotion of the production of EV by various nations/market groups like the EU will delay the benefits you mention being passed onto the consumer.