Vegas-California high-speed rail project gets $3B

[LateToCult 42,098]

 

[Emvee 8,858]

The fact that this should have happened 20 years ago but instead we started two wars in the Middle East 

Better late than never 

I have to wonder why we don’t have high speed rail connecting the LA and San Diego Areas at the very least. Imagine how many people’s quality of life would improve not having to sit in traffic for 1 to 2 hours. The California train was completely hijacked by making the first stretch through central California. Traffic is not as bad in the Central Valley and they should not have been a priority at all.  

[SevenWonder 4,775]

I'm from LA and I will believe it when I see it. We've been waiting my entire life (no joke) for an LA to San Francisco high speed rail.

We'll get the Sour Candy MV before we get that. 

[weed 79,278]

Thank god!!!! So many millions maybe billions spent to make it not happen, love that it's somewhat guaranteed!

[GypsyVida 5,960]

Brightline (the company who will run the service) has been really great in southern Florida. They recently opened the Orlando extension and from what I hear it's getting a lot of ridership. The LA-Vegas train will save many people lots of time and money!

[LateToCult 42,098]

9 minutes ago, Emvee said:

The fact that this should have happened 20 years ago but instead we started two wars in the Middle East 

Better late than never 

I have to wonder why we don’t have high speed rail connecting the LA and San Diego Areas at the very least. Imagine how many people’s quality of life would improve not having to sit in traffic for 1 to 2 hours. The California train was completely hijacked by making the first stretch through central California. Traffic is not as bad in the Central Valley and they should not have been a priority at all.  

 

6 minutes ago, SevenWonder said:

I'm from LA and I will believe it when I see it. We've been waiting my entire life (no joke) for an LA to San Francisco high speed rail.

We'll get the Sour Candy MV before we get that. 

I have more faith in Brightline getting this done than the CHSRA. Who knows, maybe if this gets completed and is successful it’ll help the other project get more fu ding to finally be completed. 

Kinda wish they would come up north and make a Vancouver-Seattle-Portland line. 

[Enigma 7,182]

North America needs to get onto high speed rail ASAP. The way almost all of the biggest cities are perfectly clustered is BEGGING for this. 
 

Vegas to Vancouver and a loop connecting NYC, DC, Toronto, Montreal, etc… would be literal utopia. It’s mind blowing it’s not even in the process yet 

[Ayesha Erotica 1,959]

2 hours ago, Emvee said:

The fact that this should have happened 20 years ago but instead we started two wars in the Middle East 

 

 

The plan may still get delayed into infinity if an earthquake occurs 

The United States had a longer highspeed train rail network than China before 2008, China had none before 2008 above 200km/h.

The years went by, while the US were spending 800 billion dollar a year for military bases, China started constructing the world's longest highspeed train rail network in the world with a total length of 42 000km as of now, compared to Spain, second place at 4300km, and 13th place US at 735km. China now accounts for 69% of all highspeed train railways km in the world, and 55% of all high speed trains in the world.

South Korea has the most extensive system by density, while the US is among the lowest in the developped world:

https://uichighspeed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/High-Speed-around-the-world_FINAL.pdf

 

I read that they legally cannot build that other railway link that you mentioned because not all residents want to move away and if they don't move away, they have no space to build it.

2 hours ago, SevenWonder said:

I'm from LA and I will believe it when I see it. We've been waiting my entire life (no joke) for an LA to San Francisco high speed rail.

We'll get the Sour Candy MV before we get that. 

You have to buy lots of packages of tea 'cause waiting time continues 

I don't know the costs for Cali, and I don't want to ruin the excitement but experiences from France's high speed railways show that ticket prices for planes are cheaper than for high speed trains, actually high speed trains are so expensive that only the élites can afford it. I doubt that average Americans will be able to afford these high speed tickets. The track is made for rich Americans only who are expected to spend millions in Las Vegas or rich upper class guys from the Silicon valley.

 

I once wanted to take a high speed train in Western Europe to Brussels. When I saw the price, gurl, I was terrified, I said bye to the ticket selling website and choose the car instead

 

I predict that basically most Americans will continue to go by car or airplane 'cause the high speed railway is gonna be unaffordable. Only in Japan, China, Korea, Eastern Europe are the prices OK.

 

"According to a new report, taking a long-distance train in Europe can cost nearly 30 times as much as flying. The report, compiled by environmental campaign group Greenpeace, compared the cost of flight and train tickets on 112 European routes on nine different dates. Train tickets were double the cost of flying, on average. Flights were cheaper than trains on 71% of the routes analyzed."

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/trains-more-expensive-than-planes-europe-greenpeace-climate/index.html

And specifically for high speed trains it is even more expensive because not all long-distance trains in Europe are high speed, so the real costs are higher than what the study presents.

 

 

 

[Roughhouse Dandy 13,850]

Cool. Now EXPAND. The fact that we don't have a decent rail system throughout at least the main parts of the country is embarrassing. 

[gumzy3000 7,953]

This would be amazing for tourists but once you get to LA or LV you need a car anyways to get around...

[LateToCult 42,098]

11 minutes ago, gumzy3000 said:

This would be amazing for tourists but once you get to LA or LV you need a car anyways to get around...

Hertz and Enterprise salivating as we speak. 

[Frey 92]

5 hours ago, LoliLux said:

The plan may still get delayed into infinity if an earthquake occurs 

The United States had a longer highspeed train rail network than China before 2008, China had none before 2008 above 200km/h.

The years went by, while the US were spending 800 billion dollar a year for military bases, China started constructing the world's longest highspeed train rail network in the world with a total length of 42 000km as of now, compared to Spain, second place at 4300km, and 13th place US at 735km. China now accounts for 69% of all highspeed train railways km in the world, and 55% of all high speed trains in the world.

South Korea has the most extensive system by density, while the US is among the lowest in the developped world:

https://uichighspeed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/High-Speed-around-the-world_FINAL.pdf

 

I read that they legally cannot build that other railway link that you mentioned because not all residents want to move away and if they don't move away, they have no space to build it.

You have to buy lots of packages of tea 'cause waiting time continues 

I don't know the costs for Cali, and I don't want to ruin the excitement but experiences from France's high speed railways show that ticket prices for planes are cheaper than for high speed trains, actually high speed trains are so expensive that only the élites can afford it. I doubt that average Americans will be able to afford these high speed tickets. The track is made for rich Americans only who are expected to spend millions in Las Vegas or rich upper class guys from the Silicon valley.

 

I once wanted to take a high speed train in Western Europe to Brussels. When I saw the price, gurl, I was terrified, I said bye to the ticket selling website and choose the car instead

 

I predict that basically most Americans will continue to go by car or airplane 'cause the high speed railway is gonna be unaffordable. Only in Japan, China, Korea, Eastern Europe are the prices OK.

 

"According to a new report, taking a long-distance train in Europe can cost nearly 30 times as much as flying. The report, compiled by environmental campaign group Greenpeace, compared the cost of flight and train tickets on 112 European routes on nine different dates. Train tickets were double the cost of flying, on average. Flights were cheaper than trains on 71% of the routes analyzed."

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/trains-more-expensive-than-planes-europe-greenpeace-climate/index.html

And specifically for high speed trains it is even more expensive because not all long-distance trains in Europe are high speed, so the real costs are higher than what the study presents.

 

 

 

*speaking from my experience with trains/planes from when I visited Europe a few years ago.. visited 6 different countries in 10 days* 

 Traveling by planes was cheaper… But only while flying internationally..  Traveling inside the countries themselves trains were actually the cheaper option…

 I’m curious if this is still the case since it was pre covid when I went  but I was broke af back then and booked the trip on a whim so Ik that was the case at the time bc I had to research every and all options to find the cheapest ways to get from point A to B 

[Ayesha Erotica 1,959]

17 hours ago, Roughhouse Dandy said:

Cool. Now EXPAND. The fact that we don't have a decent rail system throughout at least the main parts of the country is embarrassing. 

Americans look at Europe's high-speed rail system and perhaps feel envious and wish they were like Europe. But I can tell you, there's nothing to be jealous about if you knew more about what it's really like in Europe (excluding cheaper Eastern Eurpe). It is simply often (always) not a common, feasible option. I've never taken a high-speed train, HST,  although I've wanted to several times, simply because HST is too expensive and the alternatives are better price-wise.

For European HST you must:

1) Just like airplanes, HST usually requires booking months in advance, while airplanes have better short-time offers. Short-term HST tickets are more expensive than plane tickets, as are long-term ones. HST doesn't allow spontaneous trips unless you're rich. Normal trains (not high speed) allow spontaneous excursions.

2) You first have to get to an HST train station. If you want to travel without a car, you first have to take a regional train to the HST station, unless you already live there. And then of course you have to be on time, punctual, because you can't just get a replacement place in a next HST and one cannot book oneself's delay months before. Regional trains are often late....railway staff may strike... or there are construction works... many reasons why trains are are delayed... and because of this risk, you have to leave earlier (and wait longer, time you actually wanted to save) to be sure to catch the booked HST. Basically you have to leave earlier like if you have to leave for an airport.    

3) HSTs actually only offer benefits to business executives who live in the snobby areas of London and Paris, etc., in the cities themselves, and that's exactly the type of person they were designed for. They weren't made for Lady Gaga fans who want to go to a concert with them.  The Lady Gaga Simpsons episode with the bullet train is simply unrealistic b/c Lady Gaga herself is flying, and even in Europe, we don't use these bullet trains to go to a concert. If Madonna comes delayed with one hour, her concert ends one hour later than expected, it's impossible to get a new retourn journey HST ticket at an affordable price... normal train is a less risky option.

Likewise, these new American HST tracks will be made and used by for Silicon Valley high-earning guys, rich Vegas tourists, LA millionaires, etc.

4) We see the prices and then decide to take a car, normal trains (which take a long time and you have to change often), or planes or buses.

5) To be honest, there was a time I loved bullet trains (when I didn't know how expensive they are), but I started to fûcking hate high speed trains (since I can't use them either way) because whenever I'm at a station and have a normal train, the announcement comes "The departure is delayed! We have to wait for a delayed bullet train." I get so angry each time...

Bullet trains have PRIORITY. This means that regular trains have to be parked and wait for a delayed HST to pass them. As a result, normal trains are on average always more late than HST. We, the second-class people have to wait and then see the rich people in the HST rush us by which reminds us at class society

6) This is a wonderful article that perfectly explains how HST have DESTROYED the normal rail network and made everything really more cumbersome and tedious for the non-rich population in Europe:

https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2013/12/high-speed-trains-are-killing-the-european-railway-network

 

Everyone should read it!

7) Finally: really, these HST trains are made for EU bureaucrats, for CEOs, for millionaires, they are made to go from one business center to another or to headquarters of an international organizations. They are not made for ordinary people who can't just spend several hundred euros on them. ( @FfFfFfFF the rail network of Europe is dysfunctional, too, just like the EU itself is. I don't know how it is in Romania exactly)

13 hours ago, gumzy3000 said:

This would be amazing for tourists but once you get to LA or LV you need a car anyways to get around...

good point. My English teacher who once visited LA said that LA basically is not a city but a collection of neighborhoods.

12 hours ago, Frey said:

 

 Traveling by planes was cheaper… But only while flying internationally..  Traveling inside the countries themselves trains were actually the cheaper option…

 I’m curious if this is still the case

See my answer above to Roughhouse Dandy. That always was the case, still is the case and likely will continue to be the case. In the past years, long-distance bus travelling has become more popular because EU restrictions on long-distance bus travelling dropped and now crossborder long-distance bus journeys are getting more popular (but also because HST are so expensive that bus is taken as alternative as it is much cheaper).

Normal trains and regional trains are cheaper than airplanes. HST are more expensive and have the disadvantages describe above. Normal trains continue to be the preferred trains because of price but also flexibility and not having to book months in advance. There is, though, of course a difference between a 220km/h HST that stops at 15 stations in between and a 330km/h HST that only stops at 5 stations in between.

You Americans really shouldn't wait (and waste your time) by waiting for these HST networks, in my opinion... unless they do it the Japanese way. They won't be a feasible way of travelling for the average American.

[Roughhouse Dandy 13,850]

2 hours ago, LoliLux said:

19 hours ago, Roughhouse Dandy said:

Cool. Now EXPAND. The fact that we don't have a decent rail system throughout at least the main parts of the country is embarrassing. 

Americans look at Europe's high-speed rail system and perhaps feel envious and wish they were like Europe.

I hear you but the fact that rail isn't even an option for most people in most places in the country when we're still inconvenienced with problems caused by industry rail is weird. We should at least have the option if we're sticking with the whole "best country in the world" "melting pot" act. 

[FfFfFfFF 58,665]

4 hours ago, LoliLux said:

 

High speed trains are non-existent in Romania, but we can talk about the feroviar landscape in general (although I have a skin in the game because I don't own a car!!)

Trains aren't in any way excellent, but they are useful in getting you from A to B (although I am not saying it will be a short or geographically sensibile route from A to B  - imagine for instance living in Bicaz and wanting to go to Bistrița as opposed to the car route). Or taking the train from Iași to Tulcea (a route which I traveled myself with a free ticket because I participated in a school event - would probably not do it if I'll have to pay one). Generally speaking, the best rail network is that of Banat province (around Timișoara - the legacy of the Austro-Hungarian Empire) and the worst in Dobruja (the legacy of the Ottoman Empire).

There is a lot of room for improvement and untapped potential. Romania had a great start when it comes to the rail network, but after during communism many potential ideas weren't brought to fruition, and after the 90s Romania adopted a painfully machinist and individualistic culture. There is a growing and increasingly influential community mostly in Bucharest and Cluj that advocates for less cars and more public transportation routes and I absolutely support it, we should be having more railworks linking regional cities and surrounding towns and villages (I would not mind if CFR - the Romanian state-owned feroviar company is bought by Germany or another Western country to modernize it for this goal).

There is also untapped potential when it comes to the Republic of Moldova - as of now there are only two railways connecting the two banks of the Prut (since the map was created Cantemir railway rentered in use), and time spent at the border (1-2 hrs.) is a nightmare especially when it should be ideally be 0. During the Soviet occupation, Moscow wanted to completely cut off the Romanians from western Moldova from the ones in eastern Moldova - there were barely any bridges let alone rail network. But things will hopefully be changing as more bridges are being built (I mean this both practically and metaphorically ), I also hope for the railwork between Suceava and Cernăuți to be reopened - there are precedents for this as a railwork linking Romanian Maramuresh with Rakhiv in Transcarpatia was also reopened in the context of the war.

Overall yeah, the situation is less than ideal, but it's stil infinitively better than the situation in the US if you consider the size of Romania. Unfortunately, as you say people tend to prefer cars and even planes (despite RO's small size we even have planes flying from Suceava to Bucharest and between all the big regional cities ).