053Timo 1,698 Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 PVV, Geert Wilders, isn’t far right. In fact on socio-economic topics they’re quite left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis 8,391 Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 hour ago, faysalaaa1 said: The whole world is electing people like Trump and sending the same message, and it seems like the other side is in a constant state of shock, without even attempting to actually ask why. People want change, but neo liberals still want to push the establishment, status quo, corporate rule, bottom down we tell you what to do, you shut up and take it, if there is an economic crisis we blame you and punish you for it and bail the rich.. The whole world is vomiting these policies, they hate it, they will elect anyone that promises something new. lmao but voting for Trump isn't exactly being angry at capitalism lol. If there's someone who bailed the rich it was him with the tax cuts of 2017. I think there are other reasons. The "culture war" argument is gaining ground in my opinion. People, especially white people are becoming more hostile to immigration. And the latest wave of violent protests didn't help. In France for example "Rassemblement National" which is very similar to this dutch party is expected to win the next election. So this is the reality that we face. And we have the same problem in the U.S. Republicans are killing democrats on this issue. Like even in NY, a deep blue state, democrats are struggling. In 2022 they lost many seats. This is the one issue I worry about the most, because I don't see how democrats can fix the problem before 2024. But no it has nothing to do with repudiating capitalism. You don't reject capitalism by electing Donald Trump lmao. And this dutch's party entire platform is basically "end immigration and all of our problems will disappear". Same with Marine Le Pen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 6,697 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 Is this about immigration or economics or both? Stand in the light, cast your shadow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis 8,391 Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Shadow said: Is this about immigration or economics or both? Both. The far-right in Europe basically ties immigration to economics, "we spend too much on welfare for immigrants when our children don't have enough money" etc. They try to blame immigrants for everything wrong with the country, culturally, economically, socially etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladle Ghoulash 53,264 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 hour ago, gumzy3000 said: I think Canada and US are also headed this way. Seems like people are upset at inflation, housing, and immigration issues and they want drastic changes. I love that people are willing to burn their countries to the ground in the name of “radical change” 🫠 We have forgotten our public MANNERS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourEvilTwin 1,384 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 You can't "win" an election with 22% of the seats lol. It's not over until the coalition talks are finalized. Even with the VVD they only have 52 seats. Good luck finding the the other 24 seats required to form a government. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faysalaaa 5,336 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 30 minutes ago, Dennis said: lmao but voting for Trump isn't exactly being angry at capitalism lol. If there's someone who bailed the rich it was him with the tax cuts of 2017. I think there are other reasons. The "culture war" argument is gaining ground in my opinion. People, especially white people are becoming more hostile to immigration. And the latest wave of violent protests didn't help. In France for example "Rassemblement National" which is very similar to this dutch party is expected to win the next election. So this is the reality that we face. And we have the same problem in the U.S. Republicans are killing democrats on this issue. Like even in NY, a deep blue state, democrats are struggling. In 2022 they lost many seats. This is the one issue I worry about the most, because I don't see how democrats can fix the problem before 2024. But no it has nothing to do with repudiating capitalism. You don't reject capitalism by electing Donald Trump lmao. And this dutch's party entire platform is basically "end immigration and all of our problems will disappear". Same with Marine Le Pen. What im saying is they are willing to vote for anyone that promises something different and and acts like a populist, or someone that flips off the establishment. Weather they are doing the right decision or if it makes sense is another subject. In Europe I agree Immigration plays a huge part, but Democrats and the Left dont even want to admit its even a problem, and will accuse you of being racist if you have a problem with mass illegal immigration. And the more time goes by, the more its proven that immigration is a problem in Europe so more people are turning right wing. And bailing out the rich is not capitalism, its the opposite of capitalism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis 8,391 Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 minute ago, faysalaaa1 said: In Europe I agree Immigration plays a huge part, but Democrats and the Left dont even want to admit its even a problem, and will accuse you of being racist if you have a problem with mass illegal immigration. And the more time goes by, the more its proven that immigration is a problem in Europe so more people are turning right wing. Well-said. I honestly worry that if we don't make "reasonable" immigration reform, the alternative will be extreme immigration reform that paints ALL immigrants as bad people, not just the violent ones. And we're starting to see that in Europe. This guy who got elected basically got convicted of Hate Speech because he was attacking "moroccans" in a very generalized way. I'm more worried about the U.S, because we have just one year to have something that democrats can use to change perception. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivannn 1,150 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 So basically they won’t be able to form a government or have a majority in parliament and Wilders will not be a PM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis 8,391 Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ivannn said: So basically they won’t be able to form a government or have a majority in parliament and Wilders will not be a PM I really hope so. But I don't know what's the stance of the other right-wing parties. Did they confirm they'll boycott him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faysalaaa 5,336 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dennis said: Well-said. I honestly worry that if we don't make "reasonable" immigration reform, the alternative will be extreme immigration reform that paints ALL immigrants as bad people, not just the violent ones. And we're starting to see that in Europe. This guy who got elected basically got convicted of Hate Speech because he was attacking "moroccans" in a very generalized way. I'm more worried about the U.S, because we have just one year to have something that democrats can use to change perception. Yes and this will eventually lead people who have reasonable immigration concerns to have radical views. It doesnt help anyone including immigrants themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivannn 1,150 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Dennis said: I really hope so. But I don't know what's the stance of the other right-wing parties. Did they confirm they'll boycott him? They have one potential coalition partner and with them they Are still 22 seats short of majority, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debithius 6,056 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 I wonder how many of you guys actually live in Europe. Tighter immigration laws are definitely needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicks 381 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 its like a pendulum...few years of far right then people get fed up and realise their mistake and switch back to their own version of *Biden* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 52,861 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 4 hours ago, gumzy3000 said: I think Canada and US are also headed this way. Seems like people are upset at inflation, housing, and immigration issues and they want drastic changes. In Canada support for immigration is falling for the first time in a long time and the irony is that the drop is predomiantly in younger ppl But it shouldnt be surprising. They are the most affected by housing crisis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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