Cardi B goes off on Biden!

[FfFfFfFF 58,113]

15 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

Yes I agree with everything you said..

I just dont like when people say America is just trying to help and save lives, when their main goal is imperialism, even if it comes at the cost of the Ukrainian people.

It's naivity and sentimentalism. 

When it comes to the political ecuation, the Ukraine issue is for the EU a matter of not allowing Russia to expand to EU borders (bc Russia annexing the entirety of Ukraine is a legitimate concern, no matter how you put it). Yes, the EU should act upon maintaining a buffer, but not support Ukraine's maximalist goals of retaking all Russian-speaking villages in Donbas and Crimea because 1) that is never going to happen; 2) that serves no purpose for the average EU citizen who is concerned with their own living costs and national problems. Imagine you are a 40 years old single mom in Italy, is your be and all that Ukrainian flags fly over Olenivka? If Russians flags fly over Kyiv that's a different issue and one which warrants international attention, but are some Russian/Ukrainian villages in Donbas that import to be under Ukraine's control, really? The frontlines in Ukraine didn't change since September 2022, despite constant pledges and support.

These issues are simply alien and out of touch for the average person and Cardi is right this time.

[Dennis 8,391]

8 hours ago, Not The Real Gaga said:

 

 

Cultural change ain't gonna happen. Governments changing systems is more realistic, but it will take many, many years to see the benefits.

Celebrities can't change lives. Please don't give them more power than they actually have.

 

Yes they absolutely can change lives. 5k$ alone in a single year can relieve a lot of financial pressure on a student. These people make millions a year. And then she's talking to me about her cousins in the hood living in poverty as if she can't already help them if she wanted them to stop being poor. Give me a break.

This reminds me of when Jay Z complaining about his cousin asking him for a little bit of money for an investment.

[Dennis 8,391]

31 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

When it comes to the political ecuation, the Ukraine issue is for the EU a matter of not allowing Russia to expand to EU borders (bc Russia annexing the entirety of Ukraine is a legitimate concern, no matter how you put it). Yes, the EU should act upon maintaining a buffer, but not support Ukraine's maximalist goals of retaking all Russian-speaking villages in Donbas and Crimea because 1) that is never going to happen; 2) that serves no purpose for the average EU citizen who is concerned with their own living costs and national problems. Imagine you are a 40 years old single mom in Italy, is your be and all that Ukrainian flags fly over Olenivka? If Russians flags fly over Kyiv that's a different issue and one which warrants international attention, but are some Russian/Ukrainian villages in Donbas that import to be under Ukraine's control, really? The frontlines in Ukraine didn't change since September 2022, despite constant pledges and support.

Curious to see you say this considering that you seem to support Palestinian endless war with Israel and maximalist demand of "Free Palestine from the River to the Sea", which would push Palestine beyond its U.N proposed borders and make it conquer internationally recognized borders of Israel.

You have a point about the need to eventually compromise if a war goes no where, and I'll be the first to call for Ukraine to compromise when it becomes clear they can't regain their territorial integrity militarily. But calling for Ukraine to do this, while pushing Palestinians for more of an endless war that lasted more than 80 years already, and supporting maximalist demands of destroying all of Israel is hypocritical.

So after 80 years of an endless war, do you recognize that what you described in Ukraine should also apply in Israel-Palestine? And that maximalist demands on either side will lead nowhere and that people should compromise? Or is just Ukraine that needs to do that?  And if I understood you wrong, and you actually don't support that and support a compromise instead, then you can easily make it clear now for moral consistency. I'm waiting.

And finally you say Russia is weaker now and can't pose a threat to Poland or NATO. Well that's only temporary thanks to Ukraine being able to stop them. If you remove that from the equation or defund/dearm Ukraine, well there's no guarantee that Russia won't go further. They've shown themselves to have a strong military complex that can compete with NATO's chain of supply. People were wrong when they said Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine and they can be wrong again.

[FfFfFfFF 58,113]

17 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Curious to see you say this considering that you seem to support Palestinian endless war with Israel and maximalist demand of "Free Palestine from the River to the Sea", which would push Palestine beyond its U.N proposed borders and make it conquer internationally recognized borders of Israel.
 

I don't assign a lot of value to UN proposed borders (when UN ''drew'' these borders, the UN was made up of the world's empires - colonies had no independence and obviously no seat in the UN, back in those times ''mandates'' and ''international zones'' were euphemism for British sphere of influence, also UN is not consistent when half of its members don't recognize Kosovo).

I myself am pro-Palestine and believe Palestinians should ethically be entitled to rule over all their lost lands - which were theirs ethnically, factually, de facto, on the ground. But I believe because of realism, Palestine should make some concessions and accept that Israel is not going to be disolved as a country.

Mutuals concessions are the way to solve all international conflicts - my thoughts are uniformly the same when it comes to Palestine and Ukraine. I also give precedent to the ethnical picture as opposed to the legal reglementations and sterile ''international rules'' which only apply when they are compatible with the West's goals but are discarded all of the other times. 

17 minutes ago, Dennis said:

You have a point about the need to eventually compromise if a war goes no where, and I'll be the first to call for Ukraine to compromise when it becomes clear they can't regain their territorial integrity militarily. 

After a 1 year+ long stalemate and a spring offensive which never came, it is clear.

[Dennis 8,391]

20 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

I myself am pro-Palestine and believe Palestinians should ethically be entitled to rule over all their lost lands - which were theirs ethnically, factually, de facto, on the ground. But I believe because of realism, Palestine should make some concessions and accept that Israel is not going to be disolved as a country.

I'm not gonna start a debate on this. But I don't support ethnicty determining the nature of the state. Y'all complaining about Israel being an "ethno-state" because it declares itself "Jewish" but want even more "ethno-states" for Arabs/Palestinians. Already almost every other country in the middle east identifies itself as an ethnicity/religion based state. 

Ethnicity is a lot more diverse than you think. Jerusalem for example was Jewish majority city before even WW1 and the rise of Zionism. 800K+ Jews were indigenous to the MENA region.

And the reason I don't support the ethnic talk, because it eventually leads to racist conspiracy theories, like the ones we're seeing in the Europe now, "brown immigration are republicing the historical ethnic indigenous people of the land, that is white people".

And you talk about Crimea being "ethnically" Russian. Well yeah that's post Crimean tartars genocide. So you're being really subjective when talking about ethnicity. Russians deporting muslim tartars from Crimea and replacing them with Russians makes Crimea Russian today? But U.N Partition plan which displaced both Jews and Palestinians all of a sudden is ethnic cleansing of local population? You can't have it both ways.

On a final note, yes the U.N is flawed but matters of international disputes are complex. So we should use the U.N at least as a basis to solve these issues. For starters, I do not believe in the destruction of U.N recognized countries. Once there is recognition and broad agreement that a country needs to exist, I don't support a minority trying to impose their will by force.

[FfFfFfFF 58,113]

8 minutes ago, Dennis said:

 

80% of Europe is made up of ethno-states. To you ethnicity may not matter because you are an American, but in the so-called ''Old World'', ethnicity and ethnic languages are very much a defining factor of how states function, which you should be more considerate and flexibile about in your discourse, considering you are so vocal on international conflicts across the entire globe. US defaultism is very much a real thing and doesn't put your arguments into a good light.

Russians and Ukrainians benefited both from the ethnic cleansing of Tatars and Circassians & I actually never denied the fact that Russians were involved in ethnic cleansing (!!) This is how the south of Ukraine came to be Ukrainian and how Krasnodar came to be Russian (!!) Ukrainians were also involved in the ethnic cleansing of Poles from Galicia.

[Dennis 8,391]

1 minute ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Russians and Ukrainians benefited both from the ethnic cleansing of Tatars and Circassians & I actually never denied the fact that Russians were involved in ethnic cleansing (!!) This is how the south of Ukraine came to be Ukrainian and how Krasnodar came to be Russian (!!) Ukrainians were also involved in the ethnic cleansing of Poles from Galicia.

Okay, then we're in agreement, that the use of ethnic majority is subjective because basically we're choosing to ignore part of history. 

So to me, the U.N at least represents the start of a new page. Once a nation obtains recognition. We can't go back years later and try to destroy it. That's the point. I don't support the nonsense of Putin when he says Ukraine is Russian and is not a real state. And I don't support the nonsense of Hamas and the "from the River to the Sea".

As a matter of pragmatism, if Ukraine can't regain its territory militarily, it'll have to settle for whatever it maintained, rather than sacrafice people in vain. I think the fact they managed to defend most of their country and limited Russian expansionism is already a success.

As for Israel-Palestine, similarly, talk of ending the other side must stop. And there has to be a compromise within the framework of U.N Resolution 242, establishing two states recognized by each other.

[FfFfFfFF 58,113]

9 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Okay, then we're in agreement, that the use of ethnic majority is subjective because basically we're choosing to ignore part of history. 

So to me, the U.N at least represents the start of a new page. Once a nation obtains recognition. We can't go back years later and try to destroy it. That's the point. I don't support the nonsense of Putin when he says Ukraine is Russian and is not a real state. And I don't support the nonsense of Hamas and the "from the River to the Sea".

As a matter of pragmatism, if Ukraine can't regain its territory militarily, it'll have to settle for whatever it maintained, rather than sacrafice people in vain. I think the fact they managed to defend most of their country and limited Russian expansionism is already a success.

As for Israel-Palestine, similarly, talk of ending the other side must stop. And there has to be a compromise within the framework of U.N Resolution 242, establishing two states recognized by each other.

We're not in agreement. 

Ukraine has an issue in regards to its treatment of ethnic minorities (Romanians, Hungarians) which the Ukrainian states tries to Ukrainiaze because Soviet drawn borders included lots of non-Ukrainian communities which became part of the Ukrainian state and ''free real estate'' for Kyiv. Ukraine itself is an ethno-state.

The idea of ''from the River to the Sea'' is horrific, as for instance when now Israel is the only independent country whose soverignity extends over Israel proper and the Palestinian territories.

[faysalaaa 5,336]

1 hour ago, Emvee said:

I don’t give a **** about anything happening in Ukraine after this whole thing with Israel and Gaza. Russia is a **** government so I don’t care if they exhaust their military there.  The rest of Europe is already in NATO or surrounded by NATO countries. You have to be joking to suggest Putin would risk invading Poland or Finland now. 

It really exposed how shamelessly hypocritical the US is and that the Ukraine war is in fact a proxy war for geopolitical purposes. We are expected to put our head downs and work while the elites play their war games as they always have. 

Exactly! Why act like you care about Ukraine being annexed by Russia, when America just did a deal with Morrocco to recognize Israel, in return, they will allow Morocco to annex all of Western Saharan! Israel another country America is funding to annex Gaza and ethnically cleanse Palestinians.

[Dennis 8,391]

6 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Ukraine has an issue in regards to its treatment of ethnic minorities (Romanians, Hungarians) which the Ukrainian states tries to Ukrainiaze because Soviet drawn borders included lots of non-Ukrainian communities which became part of the Ukrainian state and ''free real estate'' for Kyiv. Ukraine itself is an ethno-state.

Okay this is nonsense. There is nothing in the Ukrainian laws or constitution that makes it an ethno state, and it's constitution it actually refrains from mentining a ethnicity or religion. As a matter of fact it says that the Church must be separated from the State, unlike for example Israel and Arab Countries which both conflate the State with Religious authority.

Please don't use these words unless you really know the meaning. Throwing terms like these around in situations where it's not applicable doesn't help anyone.

I'm sure discrimination exists, and it does all over the world. But you can call that discrimination, because ethno-state means something else.

With that being said, not interested in wasting hours of my time entertaining your obsession with Ukraine. I engaged in good faith, but it turns out you haven't changed on this issue. So I'll disengage.

[Future Lovers 7,541]

Its always the usual suspects missing the point

[FfFfFfFF 58,113]

7 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Okay this is nonsense. There is nothing in the Ukrainian laws or constitution that makes it an ethno state, and it's constitution it actually refrains from mentining a ethnicity or religion. As a matter of fact it says that the Church must be separated from the State, unlike for example Israel and Arab Countries which both conflate the State with Religious authority.

Please don't use these words unless you really know the meaning. Throwing terms like these around in situations where it's not applicable doesn't help anyone.

I'm sure discrimination exists, and it does all over the world. But you can call that discrimination, because ethno-state means something else.

With that being said, not interested in wasting hours of my time entertaining your obsession with Ukraine. I engaged in good faith, but it turns out you haven't changed on this issue. So I'll disengage.

I talk about ethnicity, you talk about the church – with this I rest my case.  How much do you know about the Romanian and Hungarian communities living in Ukraine and their treatment by the Ukrainian state? Have plenty of resources to send your way if you are genuine interested to learn about things you are not familiar about. Generally speaking it's best to be informed on stuff you are vocal on!

[Dennis 8,391]

12 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

I talk about ethnicity, you talk about the church – with this I rest my case.  How much do you know about the Romanian and Hungarian communities living in Ukraine and their treatment by the Ukrainian state? Have plenty of resources to send your way if you are genuine interested to learn about things you are not familiar about, so you can be informed on stuff you are vocal on in the future.

The reason I say I disengage, because this will eventually become an endless back and forth where I constantly have to address each incorrect thing you say.

Ethnicity doesn't mean just race. It includes other aspects such as religion. That's why I mentioned religion.

For example, arab countries are usually identified as both "arab and muslim" states in their constitution. Jews are considered an ethnicity.

An ethno-state is a state that systematically discriminates against some of their citizens based on their ethnicity and/or religion. Not only the Ukrainian consistution explicitly mentions "all nationalities", but also mandates separation of Religion from the State.

This is just a lie to say they're an ethno-state and you know it. So why do you want me to continue to engage. If there are issues of discrimination. Then talk about those. I know Romanians face discrimination in the rest of Europe based on stereotypes etc, that doesn't make Europe ethno-state. It's not black and white. It's not either racism-free or ethno-state. Some countries can be considered not ethno-states, but still have discrimination issues to solve.

This is the kind of nuanced understanding of things that you lack in almost every debate which makes it exhausting to explain all of this.

[FfFfFfFF 58,113]

15 minutes ago, Dennis said:

The reason I say I disengage, because this will eventually become an endless back and forth where I constantly have to address each incorrect thing you say.

Ethnicity doesn't mean just race. It includes other aspects such as religion. That's why I mentioned religion.

For example, arab countries are usually identified as both "arab and muslim" states in their constitution. Jews are considered an ethnicity.

An ethno-state is a state that systematically discriminates against some of their citizens based on their ethnicity and/or religion. Not only the Ukrainian consistution explicitly mentions "all nationalities", but also mandates separation of Religion from the State.

This is just a lie to say they're an ethno-state and you know it. So why do you want me to continue to engage. If there are issues of discrimination. Then talk about those. I know Romanians face discrimination in the rest of Europe based on stereotypes etc, that doesn't make Europe ethno-state. It's not black and white. It's not either racism-free or ethno-state. Some countries can be considered not ethno-states, but still have discrimination issues to solve.

This is the kind of nuanced understanding of things that you lack in almost every debate which makes it exhausting to explain all of this.

You are very very uninformed, it's perplexing how you still act as if you have the higher ground. The topic was Ukraine, what does "religion" and "race" have to do with Ukrainian ethnicity? Nothing.

The inconvenient truth is that, yes, the Ukrainian state systematically discriminates against its minorities. Check out the 2017 education law, or the supression of the Russyns minority.

[Dennis 8,391]

You heard it hear first, if you require public schools to use State language in their curriculum, you're an ethno-state.

I guess most of the world is ethno-states.  

Anyway enough entertaining Putinist propaganda for today.