Quentin 5,259 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 In babylon these lyrics "With a pretty sixteenth-century smile" might refer to... Spoiler (1503) Genius Lyrics says so at least and that was also my opinion In my opinion the cover of Chromatica also is a nod to : Spoiler Follow every rainbow till you find your dream Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edonis 28,752 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 Babylon is a really well-written track! It's too bad a very vocal minority of the fanbase was strung up on a mediocre demo and didn't have a chance to really appreciate its greatness! Deserved to be one of her signature songs! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catnikko 13,907 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 I think 'with a stinky 16th century smile' could've been more realistic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Puppies 35,677 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 It's actually the opposite of a "smile" as we know it. There may just be a hint of a smile. In the 16th century a smile was "unfashionable" because people weren't photographed. They were painted which took hours and is quite exhausting. https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-smiles-rare-art-history I could also see it as "keeping cool" in front of paparazzi/press because on those pap pics they ain't smiling cuz it's for the press and they publish all types of bs and gossip. (I just came up with that thought ) THEY CALL ME LADY MOP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladle Ghoulash 16,503 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 I’d say, given that she’s talking about the ancient city of Babylon, she’s probably referring to the 16th century BCE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieQuinn 1,737 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 53 minutes ago, Edonis said: Babylon is a really well-written track! It's too bad a very vocal minority of the fanbase was strung up on a mediocre demo and didn't have a chance to really appreciate its greatness! Deserved to be one of her signature songs! I think both are unique and special. Babylon (and Enigma) live were 🔥! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamo 17,820 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Edonis said: Babylon is a really well-written track! It's too bad a very vocal minority of the fanbase was strung up on a mediocre demo and didn't have a chance to really appreciate its greatness! Deserved to be one of her signature songs! THANK YOU. The demo does not hit as hard as the final studio version, i will never understand the hate it gets?? it makes no sense. The final version of Babylon is one of the best songs on chromatica and also one of the best in her discography. It sounds like a classic, timeless track that deserved a major single treatment/video. It's such an anthem and her best closing track by far imo. A whole ass celebration even! those with taste will only understand you can serve it to me ancient city style... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookytanooki 299 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 I always thought she was talking about Perez Hilton, cos of "gossip" and cos everyone had messed up teeth back then 💀 *I base this information on absolutely nothing* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen 30,295 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 Just now, spookytanooki said: I always thought she was talking about Perez Hilton, cos of "gossip" and cos everyone had messed up teeth back then 💀 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFame Monster 8,779 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Edonis said: Babylon is a really well-written track! It's too bad a very vocal minority of the fanbase was strung up on a mediocre demo and didn't have a chance to really appreciate its greatness! Deserved to be one of her signature songs! The demo sounds like exactly what it was made for - a beauty product commercial album version clears>>>>> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir 14,997 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 I’ve always wondered if “rip that song” was a mention to The Madonna born this way / express yourself fiasco and gaga was mocking that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the Fall 3,793 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 40 minutes ago, Noir said: I’ve always wondered if “rip that song” was a mention to The Madonna born this way / express yourself fiasco and gaga was mocking that I guess its possible but why would Gaga feel the need to bring up that old beef again when she and Madonna have seemingly been on friendly terms for awhile now. Babylon is about empowerment and ignoring all the gossip around you, seems like a general statement rather than anything specific. Hey, I'm king of the world, you ought to hear my song, you come on measure me, I'm twenty inches long Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookytanooki 299 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Stephen said: Same, girl, same. *I base this information on absolutely nothing* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen 30,295 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Noir said: I’ve always wondered if “rip that song” was a mention to The Madonna born this way / express yourself fiasco and gaga was mocking that Me too especially cuz Babylon is clearly ripping Vogue. She even sang a line of Vogue on some shows of the tour. I think that whole express yourself / reductive thing really affected her deeply. We saw how she was still talking about it in 5 Five Two. I think partially bc she was a huge Madonna fan and felt let down by her idol, but also because that started a narrative of people invaliding he whole artistry and her integrity that lasted for years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edonis 28,752 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 20 hours ago, Stephen said: Me too especially cuz Babylon is clearly ripping Vogue. She even sang a line of Vogue on some shows of the tour. I think that whole express yourself / reductive thing really affected her deeply. We saw how she was still talking about it in 5 Five Two. I think partially bc she was a huge Madonna fan and felt let down by her idol, but also because that started a narrative of people invaliding he whole artistry and her integrity that lasted for years. The line was present on the demo versions even before the more "Vogue-like" drum pattern was included for the final album version. If anything, I think it's more a dig at critics who accused her of ripping off artists from the 70s/80s/90s (Bowie, Grace Jones, etc.), with Madonna's being the most infamous lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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