Macron says what no European leader since de Gaulle has dared

[27monster27 15,852]

While I don't agree with a lot of what he is saying the article "coincidentally" using a picture of him with a PRC flag in the background is a comically obvious PR stunt.

[Fuffy 1,049]

40 minutes ago, YourEvilTwin said:

"For all its challenges". Lmao, what does that even mean? That its status as the largest and most effective terrorist organization since WW2 is being threatened?

What I mean is that it has poorly handled some situations but there’s no other realistic option out there and the US does share similar values to Europe. 

I won’t debate the terrorism claim because it’s very complex and a loaded term. 

When you see geopolitics subjectively you realize you have to pick the best option available, and the US is the best choice for Europe. The other powers to ally with are arguably gearing up to do much worse with very little care for human rights and democracy, which is what Europe values the most. And yes, the US doesn’t always demonstrate that, but it is more aligned to it than the other options. Consider how nations like China and Russia mistreat their own people, let alone foreigners. 

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

At this point i believe that his only purpose is to makes french people mad.  
Not him coming in China to makes business after giving everyone lessons about Ukraine and wars. While still unable to fix the numerous crisis that he started in our own country  

[Debithius 6,056]

38 minutes ago, BBhomemaker said:

At this point i believe that his only purpose is to makes french people mad.  
Not him coming in China to makes business after giving everyone lessons about Ukraine and wars. While still unable to fix the numerous crisis that he started in our own country  

Say what you want about him but he has a backbone.

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

5 minutes ago, Debithius said:

Say what you want about him but he has an ego problem .

 

[Debithius 6,056]

1 minute ago, BBhomemaker said:

 

He's a politician. What do you expect lol.

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

6 minutes ago, Debithius said:

He's a politician. What do you expect lol.

To take more example on Charles de Gaulle : Resignate ? 

[Emvee 8,827]

2 hours ago, Debithius said:

Europe didn't drag the US into anything. It's the US who uses Europe as its playground and they are the ones who are trying to push Europeans to conform and do America's bidding abroad *cough* bombing nordstream 2 *cough*.

I completely agree that the EU should become more self sufficient and stop relying so much on the US. It will literally hinder progress overseas.

Excuse me what? The US had nothing to do with either world war.

 

Not to even mention that France had been essentially conquered, Britain’s only saving grace was that it was detached from the continent, AND the United States armed Russia in their front against Germany. Lend lease was VITAL for their victory. 
 

So many little revisionists these days. Must be the war in Ukraine that is rotting people’s brains 

[Dennis 8,391]

3 hours ago, Debithius said:

Europe didn't drag the US into anything. It's the US who uses Europe as its playground and they are the ones who are trying to push Europeans to conform and do America's bidding abroad *cough* bombing nordstream 2 *cough*.

I completely agree that the EU should become more self sufficient and stop relying so much on the US. It will literally hinder progress overseas.

I really think you don't have any knowledge about how the U.S used to be before WW1 and WW2. And by the way, Ukraine blew up Nordstream 2, not the U.S.

[Dennis 8,391]

3 hours ago, YourEvilTwin said:

"For all its challenges". Lmao, what does that even mean? That its status as the largest and most effective terrorist organization since WW2 is being threatened?

"largest and most effective terrorist organization". Are you okay? genuinely worried for you.

[Debithius 6,056]

10 minutes ago, Dennis said:

I really think you don't have any knowledge about how the U.S used to be before WW1 and WW2. And by the way, Ukraine blew up Nordstream 2, not the U.S.

 

54 minutes ago, Emvee said:

Excuse me what? The US had nothing to do with either world war.

 

Not to even mention that France had been essentially conquered, Britain’s only saving grace was that it was detached from the continent, AND the United States armed Russia in their front against Germany. Lend lease was VITAL for their victory. 
 

So many little revisionists these days. Must be the war in Ukraine that is rotting people’s brains 

Where did I mention any of the world wars? Also let's not act as if US even wanted to help Europe during the world wars to begin with. They only joined when it suited them and would have gladly let Hitler take over as long as he would've cooperated with the US.

And my brain is fine thank you very much. I live here, I see what the US it trying to do. 

[Emvee 8,827]

7 hours ago, Debithius said:

 

Where did I mention any of the world wars? Also let's not act as if US even wanted to help Europe during the world wars to begin with. They only joined when it suited them and would have gladly let Hitler take over as long as he would've cooperated with the US.

And my brain is fine thank you very much. I live here, I see what the US it trying to do. 

Don’t try to weasel yourself out of this. You were directly responding to to someone saying that the US historically gets dragged into European wars. This is objectively the truth. Whether the US had anterior motives is a totally other discussion. No country anywhere at any point engages in war without something to gain. 
 

Oh so you’re an American? This makes it even more funny that you feel the need to speak for Europeans 

If you were the prevailing thought in America, Jews and Albanians would have been successfully wiped off the face of the earth. 

[Debithius 6,056]

6 hours ago, Emvee said:

Don’t try to weasel yourself out of this. You were directly responding to to someone someone saying that the US historically gets dragged into European wars. This is objectively the truth. Whether the US had anterior motives is a totally other discussion. No country anywhere at any point engages in war without something to gang. 
 

Oh so you’re an American? This makes it even more funny that you feel the need to speak for Europeans 

If you were the prevailing thought in America, Jews and Albanians would have been successfully wiped off the face of the earth. 

No I am European dude, I am not American lol. I am not trying weasel myself out of anything. And America has been a part of more wars than just the WWs so no I wasn't explicitly talking about WW1 or WW2 because America chose to join whenever they wanted to.

Take Ukraine for example. You really think America is trying to help them from the goodness of their hearts? Even Europe told America to stop escalating everything with Putin, and yet...what did the US do? Try to fight a proxy war with Russia as usual and likely bombed Nordstream 2. As usual at the exepense of Europe of course. Either way, the US is always trying to dictate law and order in Europe and play Europe to their advantage in general. So yes, I would be happy if we moved away from the US and became more independent because America clearly gives 0 ****s about Europe if it doesn't benefit them. America is always so hesitant to help their allies in times of need but wants the entire world to come to their rescue when something happens on their soil.

[NightStar 313]

For those really interested in the topic, I suggest you read the materials of Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership negotiations which have been made public. It was a trade agreement which Obama administration of the second term tried to negotiate with the EU. Even though the deal never saw the day, the disagreements highlighted during negotiations are extremely valuable sources of articulation of some fundamental misalignment which had been present long before Macron interview. 

The American side argued that the European Union took the US security guarantees for Europe for granted and did not deliver on the military expenditure vows of NATO, using these funds instead for the social welfare. They also did not like the imbalance of the industrial trade between the two economic systems, which was heavily in favor of the EU and pissed Washington off, because the US had undergone some mild deindustrialization of its economy during the hot phase of globalization and was now relying a bit too heavily on the EU. The American side proposed to work those imbalance out by this trade agreement, which could give the US economy benefits by opening the EU military procurement market to the US military producers and also by opening the EU food market to US agricultural producers. 

The Europeans argued that the American health and food standards were too different from the EU standards and that opening the EU food market to the US agricultural producers would inevitably lead to degrading the food and health standards in Europe. They were, however, ready to discuss opening some agricultural markets to Americans, like fertilizers, on the condition that the US would open its own procurement to the EU contractors. The europeans also expressed concerns because of the possible open trade of cars, again, due to eco and climate standard differences. 

The deal was not negotiated during Obama's second term, yet Trump's ascent to the Oval Office didn't put an immediate end to it. If you remember his foreign policy, then you will see how his European moves were plainly deduced from the TTIP negotiations: he, too, blamed the EU counties for not meeting the NATO expenditure standards, and was involved in a series of mini trade wars with the EU, when he would raise tariffs for certain goods. His China rhetorics in the end completely overshadowed his EU beef, but his EU foreign policy was a lot more rational than given credit for, obviously if you define rationality as succession of your predecessor's direction. 

To sum up, despite the unity which the US and the EU found over the issue of Russian invasion of Ukraine, the US-EU relations have not been a cloudless summer sky ever since 2013-2014, and their trade disagreements have a long and complicated history. Macron, though, is a little late for the party. The EU is not self-sufficient when it comes to energy, and by seizing oil trade with Russia and due to the fall of Russian pipeline gas supplies, the EU must rely on the USA in order to secure itself with necessary energy resources, at least for some time. The Persian Gulf alone is not enough to compensate the volumes which Russia used to deliver, and so the EU is already sort of tied up to the USA for some time.  

It is not necessarily a bad thing, because all countries are usually dependent on each other, but it brings a new problem for the EU. Due to its newfound strategic energy partnership with the USA, the EU are unlikely to abstain from picking a side in a possible US-China trade war and military conflict. 

 

[Chromatislaps 34,854]

18 hours ago, Joshua81 said:

Europe is sooo dependent on China it's just sad 

 

So is the USA