Biden Admin Allows Schools to Ban Trans Kids from Sports

[sarahb 17,185]

8 hours ago, Roronoa said:

I would not, because trans women are women. And also, people come in all shapes and sizes. To be honest.. I believe anybody can compete with everybody. Gender is a spectrum. Erase men and women categories. (I also believe that babies should not be gendered when they are born, and should remain non-binary until they can decide for themselves.)

Yeah no thanks. If I competed with a group of boys as a 16 year old playing soccer I would've quit after one game, and so would all the other girls on my team. 

[Economy 52,840]

4 hours ago, Agunimon said:

I don't understand how or why sports is relating to gender or gender expression at all. I firmly believe, and I think only a couple of others do as well, that this is a topic that should exclusively respect assigned sex. Anything that involves physical activity when it relates to other people in team and competitive settings should not regard one's gender expression or identity. Trans women are indeed women, but women are also women and do not have the physical competitive edge of having been born with more testosterone which indeed affects athletic performance (that is literally what steroids are).

This is what I was trying to explain in my reply above. Segregation in sports was created because of physical differences between the sexes not because of how you express yourself or how masculine or feminine you are by societies definition. That's kind of besides the point.

 

When this segregation was created the idea of gender being a seperate thing from sex was not even well understood if at all granted. Now it is and it has complicated views when it comes to this because ppl take it personally as not accepting their gender identity...

 

However I think it's also irrelevant. The fact that they did not make a distinction between sex and gender is irrelevant. At the end of the day the physical differences is still the reason they did it and therefore it does not really matter if societies take on gender vs sex has changed because again expression has nothing to do why the segregation exists.

 

That being said it's more controversial once someone starts taking hormones or transitions because physically they start to resemble the other sex more so. But when ppl haven't taken hormone therapy at all or started any transition I'm surprised at the view that they should still be competing based on gender expression

 

Also I will reiterate that if we ended sex based segregation completely and instead made categories by weight, height, muscle mass etc it would end these issues and debates once and for all and we wouldn't even have to worry about it anymore. Just put Simmilar sizes bodies together and that way it will always be fair no matter what and problem solved

[Economy 52,840]

27 minutes ago, sarahb said:

Yeah no thanks. If I competed with a group of boys as a 16 year old playing soccer I would've quit after one game, and so would all the other girls on my team. 

I think ironically some ppl with a very strong position on this (more so for those that have not undergone any transition or hormone therapy) are the ones confusing sex with gender as if it was the same thing even tho they are usually the first ppl to correct someone else in a different set of circumstances if they fail to seperate the two 

[faysalaaa 5,336]

6 hours ago, TylerMedeiros said:

Was this thread creating to share news or to create an argument? Times are touchy and this probably could’ve been Left un discussed on GAGA daily. I am not disclosing whether I agree or disagree on the subject - but that I don’t like to see us fight. 

Paws up and spread kindness 

Even with our disagreements, every single person who commented on this thread has respectful and pro trans. Discussions like this make me learn new things and rethink my opinions. Why does it bother you that we are talking about it?

[Guillaume Hamon 6,983]

11 hours ago, Roronoa said:

To be honest.. I believe anybody can compete with everybody. Gender is a spectrum. Erase men and women categories.

Gender is indeed but biological sex isn't. It comes from a good heart but that would be dangerous to mix everybody I believe. You probably need some type of categories like in boxing where they don't place the biggest bodies with lighter ones for security reasons. Even in sports that aren't about fights like soccer you still get big damages when "similar bodies masses" hit each other by mistake so if it was a Zlatan type bumping a Rapinoe type extra hard it would get way riskier to play for females...

[Petie Estie 5,704]

On 4/7/2023 at 7:31 PM, Fuffy said:

I don't think it's a made up fear, especially while the evidence is scarce. You're right to a point, some of it is clouded by hatred and some people are using it as an opportunity to attack transpeople. But if someone is being competitive, it will affect their income and career as an athlete, which really is short-lived for athletes who give up a lot of their early life to do this. 

Athletes usually have to win to get the most visibility to earn sponsorships, build a career and make their living. So if ciswomen are at a disadvantage on the podium, that will affect their livelihoods. Especially at high school level in places like the US, where potential elite athletes who perform well can get full ride college scholarships. 

That said, in amateur sports, I don't see an issue as it's just fun and in most cases, co-ed sports are becoming more popular which is good. But at an elite or even semi-professional level, it can really make/break people's lives. 

right, and I think we should collectively not care about this. Because  at worst, it means that some women won't make it to a professional level. Not really a tragedy for somebody to not have a sports career. Like I could not possibly care less about this. 

[faysalaaa 5,336]

On 4/10/2023 at 4:54 PM, SEANGT said:

right, and I think we should collectively not care about this. Because  at worst, it means that some women won't make it to a professional level. Not really a tragedy for somebody to not have a sports career. Like I could not possibly care less about this. 

Its not a big deal to you, but for many women its their job and career, passion, and what they want to do for the rest of their life. If you really think its not a big deal, why not tell trans women (who make an extremely small percentage of womens sports) that its not a big deal?

[Fuffy 1,049]

8 hours ago, SEANGT said:

right, and I think we should collectively not care about this. Because  at worst, it means that some women won't make it to a professional level. Not really a tragedy for somebody to not have a sports career. Like I could not possibly care less about this. 

I’m fine with that view if you see the world from a survival of the fittest perspective but the logic you’ve attached to it deserves a rethink.

If ciswomen being disadvantaged in sport doesn’t really matter in your eyes and we give no platform for them to realistically participate fairly, it shouldn’t really matter about banning a very small group of transwomen. By your logic, they can just choose to do a different career, it’s no biggie. Or they (and ciswomen) can compete with the men, gender is just a label and winning doesn’t matter.

Your argument would be like saying we should do away with the paralympics and make them compete with non-paralympic athletes since their careers and winning doesn’t matter. 

Does that make sense why it seems odd to me?

 

[Petie Estie 5,704]

21 hours ago, faysalaaa1 said:

Its not a big deal to you, but for many women its their career, passion, and what they want to do for the rest of their life. If you really think its not a big deal, why not tell trans women (who make an extremely small percentage of womens sports) that its not a big deal?

Women can compete with women. A few of those may be trans. If they don't make the cut, they don't make the cut. It's sports. It's competitive. Sorry?

[Petie Estie 5,704]

13 hours ago, Fuffy said:

I’m fine with that view if you see the world from a survival of the fittest perspective but the logic you’ve attached to it deserves a rethink.

If ciswomen being disadvantaged in sport doesn’t really matter in your eyes and we give no platform for them to realistically participate fairly, it shouldn’t really matter about banning a very small group of transwomen. By your logic, they can just choose to do a different career, it’s no biggie. Or they (and ciswomen) can compete with the men, gender is just a label and winning doesn’t matter.

Your argument would be like saying we should do away with the paralympics and make them compete with non-paralympic athletes since their careers and winning doesn’t matter. 

Does that make sense why it seems odd to me?

 

it would seem odd if I said anything about banning anybody from anything or changing anything about anything else. I just think women should compete in women's sports. That includes trans women. There doesn't need to be any special rule. Nonbinary folks can choose whatever team they want. I really don't think it matters. 

[faysalaaa 5,336]

5 hours ago, SEANGT said:

it would seem odd if I said anything about banning anybody from anything or changing anything about anything else. I just think women should compete in women's sports. That includes trans women. There doesn't need to be any special rule. Nonbinary folks can choose whatever team they want. I really don't think it matters. 

Both sex and gender are real scientific things, you cant say gender is real while ignoring biological sex. You can believe in biological sex and also believe that trans women are women. 

A trans woman biological sex is invalid information in almost all circumstances, but there are certain circumstances where their biological sex is important. A good example of that is a Doctors visit.

[SharkmanthaC 115,027]

On 4/7/2023 at 4:30 PM, TylerMedeiros said:

Was this thread creating to share news or to create an argument? Times are touchy and this probably could’ve been Left un discussed on GAGA daily. I am not disclosing whether I agree or disagree on the subject - but that I don’t like to see us fight. 

Paws up and spread kindness 

News about trans rights will always bring discussion. If you find a post overly argumentative or rude, please report it. This discussion is very civil and respectful so far. But don’t worry, we as mods monitor the “controversial” topics as much as possible. 

[Fuffy 1,049]

6 hours ago, SEANGT said:

it would seem odd if I said anything about banning anybody from anything or changing anything about anything else. I just think women should compete in women's sports. That includes trans women. There doesn't need to be any special rule. Nonbinary folks can choose whatever team they want. I really don't think it matters. 

But wouldn’t that matter by making it unfair on the participants? Let’s say I am an athlete who was assigned male at birth and discovered over time that I am gender-fluid and tend identify more as a female than a male on most days. Therefore, I chose to compete on the women’s category.  

Wouldn’t that be unfair to women, including transwomen that chose to have hormone therapy and consequently saw a reduction in their max performance?

I agree with you on equal and non-discriminatory participation for all in most things, but sports are heavily influenced by sex at birth rather than gender. That’s why we need to balance fairness for all, especially while we evaluate its impact in sporting. 

[MACATL 2,125]

I agree that biological male people should not be physically competing against biological female people in sports.  It’s simply not fair to biological female people.  

[faysalaaa 5,336]

5 hours ago, MACATL said:

I agree that biological male people should not be physically competing against biological female people in sports.  It’s simply not fair to biological female people.  

Trans women are biologically male, but is their biological sex important if they take hormones? Specially that alot of trans women are now transitioning at a young age before puberty. We still dont really know the answer to that..