Biden Admin Allows Schools to Ban Trans Kids from Sports

[Future Lovers 7,535]

 

[Future Lovers 7,535]

It appears that this is a decision that has been made in order to act as a "compromise" on this particular issue. This order puts a restriction on blanket bans on trans athletes in school sports, but allows for bans on a case by case basis. This is problematic for two reasons:

1. In most of the states that have been pursuing blanket bans, there are less than 10 students, in a couple cases only 1 singular student who are trans and wishing to participate in school sports. They were pursuing restrictive blanket bans in response those students, and now have been given permission to simply point fingers at those students directly and say "no you cannot play"

2. This assumes that conservatives are going to think logically and behave fairly when that has never once been shown to be how they behave. They won't consider things on a case by case basis, they won't look at nuance between different situations, they will simply ban every trans child from the sport and hide behind "oh but we looked at the facts of this particular case"

This is not a compromise, it's handing Republicans federal freedom to disenfranchise trans kids without punishment. His admin has to stop pretending that there is middle ground to be found in politics anymore. Crossing the aisle, making compromises, that just isn't how this **** works today. All this does is weakens what little defense trans kids had in federal law to start with and it is an abject betrayal of the promises he made on the campaign trail. And for what? To maybe lure over a small amount of moderate swing voters who make up such a small portion of the voting pool that they'll have a negligible impact on his voter turn out? 

[faysalaaa 5,336]

I dont think most people disagree with this? even trans people and leftists have talked about how trans people shouldnt be part of womens sports. Every time I try to get a real scientific answer on this, there is always not enough studies and evidence.

[River 127,331]

A 2015 study by Harper of eight women, found their race times slowed after transitioning from male to female, while their performance relative to sex-matched runners stayed the same. The results suggest they have no advantage over cisgender women.

https://cgscholar.com/bookstore/works/race-times-for-transgender-athletes

Read it, it's free and get smarter.

[Future Lovers 7,535]

34 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

I dont think most people disagree with this? even trans and leftists have talked about how trans people shouldnt be part of womens sports. Every time I try to get a real scientific answer on this, there is always not enough studies and evidence.

First and foremost, there has been no evidence to suggest that trans individuals who've transitioned represent any obstacle to fairness in sports. The argument of born males having an advantage due to the build of their bodies is not accepted science as there is no actual accepted science on whether or not gender plays a significant role in sports.

The only genetic thing we can point to as a potential advantage is luck of the draw genetics that are independent of gender. Michael Phelps for example has a body composition that makes it easier for him to swim at the speed that he does versus his other male competition. That has nothing to do with his gender, just his genetic makeup. Crucially though, even this is not a reliable indication that he will inherently be better than his competition because it also discounts the fact that his competition who may not have the more favorable body build to Phelps are still able to outperform him because of their technical skill. 

We've seen born females perform better in running sports than trans females have. Trans individuals outperforming cis gender athletes by any significant metric does not happen, there is not a rush of trans athletes who've suddenly come in and knocked cis gender athletes back in rankings. 

Here is a selection from an article from the ACLU (linked here) explaining this:

Trans athletes vary in athletic ability just like cisgender athletes. “One high jumper could be taller and have longer legs than another, but the other could have perfect form, and then do better,” explains Andraya Yearwood, a student track athlete and ACLU client. “One sprinter could have parents who spend so much money on personal training for their child, which in turn, would cause that child to run faster,” she adds. In Connecticut, where cisgender girl runners have tried to block Andraya from participating in the sport she loves, the very same cis girls who have claimed that trans athletes have an “unfair” advantage have consistently performed as well as or better than transgender competitors.

“A person’s genetic make-up and internal and external reproductive anatomy are not useful indicators of athletic performance,”according to Dr. Joshua D. Safer. “For a trans woman athlete who meets NCAA standards, “there is no inherent reason why her physiological characteristics related to athletic performance should be treated differently from the physiological characteristics of a non-transgender woman.”

Secondly, as an adolescent, any supposed advantage that we discuss in adult sports is not going to be present as these kids have not completed puberty so this whole discussion of trans youth in youth sports creating unfairness doesn't hold up anyhow. 

Thirdly, as I mentioned above, the states aiming to pursue blanket bans were doing in response to less than 10 and in some cases 1 singular trans student wishing to participate in sports for a team opposite their birth gender. What this bill allows is for those state legislatures to single those children out, put a spotlight on them, and tell them directly that they are not allowed to play. It's horrible and cruel that these children are going to be singled out by their state government when there is absolutely no proof that them being trans impacts fairness. 

Lastly, Biden promised when he was campaigning that he would not allow any bans of trans athletes from sports. This promise was an appeal directly to trans voters at a time when their rights were being challenged. And now that we're in the midst of an even more dangerous time for trans people, when their lives are being even further challenged, he not only walks back on that promise but actively ENABLES the singling out of trans people. 

Whether or not most people agree or disagree is irrelevant for one massive reason: most people are uneducated on this matter and have not bothered to become educated on the matter, preferring instead to listen to oversimplified discussions from media and accepting bunk science from people who have a right wing agenda when it comes to the subject of trans athletes. Public acceptance has nothing to do with the simple fact that barring trans athletes, especially children, from participating in sports is wrong and an appalling position for a supposedly liberal politican to take. 

[Future Lovers 7,535]

1 minute ago, River said:

A 2015 study by Harper of eight women, found their race times slowed after transitioning from male to female, while their performance relative to sex-matched runners stayed the same. The results suggest they have no advantage over cisgender women.

https://cgscholar.com/bookstore/works/race-times-for-transgender-athletes

Read it, it's free and get smarter.

@faysalaaa1 add this bit to what I mentioned above

[faysalaaa 5,336]

On 4/7/2023 at 9:32 AM, Future Lovers said:

First and foremost, there has been no evidence to suggest that trans individuals who've transitioned represent any obstacle to fairness in sports. The argument of born males having an advantage due to the build of their bodies is not accepted science as there is no actual accepted science on whether or not gender plays a significant role in sports.

What we do know plays a role is genetics independent of gender. Michael Phelps for example has a body composition that makes it easier for him to swim at the speed that he does versus his other male competition. That has nothing to do with his gender, just his genetic makeup. We've seen born females perform better in running sports than trans females have. Trans individuals outperforming cis gender athletes by any significant metric does not happen, there is not a rush of trans athletes who've suddenly come in and knocked cis gender athletes back in rankings. 

Here is a selection from an article from the ACLU (linked here) explaining this:

Trans athletes vary in athletic ability just like cisgender athletes. “One high jumper could be taller and have longer legs than another, but the other could have perfect form, and then do better,” explains Andraya Yearwood, a student track athlete and ACLU client. “One sprinter could have parents who spend so much money on personal training for their child, which in turn, would cause that child to run faster,” she adds. In Connecticut, where cisgender girl runners have tried to block Andraya from participating in the sport she loves, the very same cis girls who have claimed that trans athletes have an “unfair” advantage have consistently performed as well as or better than transgender competitors.

“A person’s genetic make-up and internal and external reproductive anatomy are not useful indicators of athletic performance,”according to Dr. Joshua D. Safer. “For a trans woman athlete who meets NCAA standards, “there is no inherent reason why her physiological characteristics related to athletic performance should be treated differently from the physiological characteristics of a non-transgender woman.”

Secondly, as an adolescent, any supposed advantage that we discuss in adult sports is not going to be present as these kids have not completed puberty so this whole discussion of trans youth in youth sports creating unfairness doesn't hold up anyhow. 

Thirdly, as I mentioned above, the states aiming to pursue blanket bans were doing in response to less than 10 and in some cases 1 singular trans student wishing to participate in sports for a team opposite their birth gender. What this bill allows is for those state legislatures to single those children out, put a spotlight on them, and tell them directly that they are not allowed to play. It's horrible and cruel that these children are going to be singled out by their state government when there is absolutely no proof that them being trans impacts fairness. 

Lastly, Biden promised when he was campaigning that he would not allow any bans of trans athletes from sports. This promise was an appeal directly to trans voters at a time when their rights were being challenged. And now that we're in the midst of an even more dangerous time for trans people, when their lives are being even further challenged, he not only walks back on that promise but actively ENABLES the singling out of trans people. 

Whether or not most people agree or disagree is irrelevant for one massive reason: most people are uneducated on this matter and have not bothered to become educated on the matter, preferring instead to listen to oversimplified discussions from media and accepting bunk science from people who have a right wing agenda when it comes to the subject of trans athletes. Public acceptance has nothing to do with the simple fact that barring trans athletes, especially children, from participating in sports is wrong and an appalling position for a supposedly liberal politican to take. 

Most scientists say there is not enough research to come up with a conclusion on the trans sports situation. Even the studies you mentioned say that and are asking for more research.

I can potentially be convinced on the trans sports issue, but then these studies try to suggest men and women are not that different in sports! Which is insane and makes me question everything they are trying to push for. Its a scientific fact that men outcompete women in almost all sports.

[faysalaaa 5,336]

7 hours ago, River said:

A 2015 study by Harper of eight women, found their race times slowed after transitioning from male to female, while their performance relative to sex-matched runners stayed the same. The results suggest they have no advantage over cisgender women.

https://cgscholar.com/bookstore/works/race-times-for-transgender-athletes

Read it, it's free and get smarter.

Why did they do the study in one of the only sports that women actually outperform men in? this doesnt make sense! 

[Future Lovers 7,535]

40 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

Why did they do the study in one of the only sports that women actually outperform men in? this doesnt make sense! do a study in boxing or swimming for example.

They did it in running because that is by far one the most common sports that trans individuals participate in to a level that their presence is even notable. Swimming is gaining a trans populace and as such there have been studies launched recently into this, but of course no word from them. But sports like boxing don’t have a trans presence anywhere near close enough to look at under a microscope like this. 

But, the point being, these studies that have been conducted have never once turned over ANY evidence to suggest a trans female has a biological advantage. Not once. And yet, laws are being made using bunk “science” that claims to prove it but their research and conclusions are always found to be unrepeatable. 

I don’t know about you but I don’t want my government making invasive laws based upon bunk science? You wanna know why?

Because at this moment there are multiple US states pushing legislation that will allow for a physical examination of a child’s genitals to prove that they are not trans in order to allow them to play sports, and it’s all based on the unproven, unaccepted conclusion that trans women have an unfair advantage. THAT is where this rhetoric is leading us. 

Republicans love to call trans people groomers, and yet trans people aren’t the ones asking to see children’s genitals. 

[faysalaaa 5,336]

22 hours ago, Future Lovers said:

They did it in running because that is by far one the most common sports that trans individuals participate in to a level that their presence is even notable. Swimming is gaining a trans populace and as such there have been studies launched recently into this, but of course no word from them. But sports like boxing don’t have a trans presence anywhere near close enough to look at under a microscope like this. 

But, the point being, these studies that have been conducted have never once turned over ANY evidence to suggest a trans female has a biological advantage. Not once. And yet, laws are being made using bunk “science” that claims to prove it but their research and conclusions are always found to be unrepeatable. 

I don’t know about you but I don’t want my government making invasive laws based upon bunk science? You wanna know why?

Because at this moment there are multiple US states pushing legislation that will allow for a physical examination of a child’s genitals to prove that they are not trans in order to allow them to play sports, and it’s all based on the unproven, unaccepted conclusion that trans women have an unfair advantage. THAT is where this rhetoric is leading us. 

Republicans love to call trans people groomers, and yet trans people aren’t the ones asking to see children’s genitals. 

I agree there is no evidence showing trans women have a biological advantage to cis women, which is why I said there is not enough research and evidence on this situation. I want trans women to be able to compete in womans sports, but my support for that must come from science, not politics.

It took me a while to understand and accept all trans issues because of how new and complex it is, but ive come to accept them all. The only ones im not sure about is trans sports and trans kids transitioning. Although ive had some interesting conversations recently that made me question my opinions, which is mainly why I love talking about these controversial subjects.

[Helxig 45,330]

As f.ucked up as this is I just wanna say how humorously opposite to my opinion this is   my opinion is that sports shouldn't be separated by genders at all, but rather by weight and skill classes. Every gender and form of identity on teams together. Why does gender separate the teams? It's always felt so strange to me. Toxic even

[faysalaaa 5,336]

3 minutes ago, Helxig said:

As f.ucked up as this is I just wanna say how humorously opposite to my opinion this is   my opinion is that sports shouldn't be separated by genders at all, but rather by weight and skill classes. Every gender and form of identity on teams together. Why does gender separate the teams? It's always felt so strange to me. Toxic even

The reality you want will result in women only being able to compete in lower skill levels, and they can never be the top at any sports. They will be relegated to always being in something like fourth division. This will result in not getting paid much and no viewers.

[weed 78,884]

1 hour ago, faysalaaa1 said:

Why did they do the study in one of the only sports that women actually outperform men in? this doesnt make sense! do a study in boxing or swimming for example.

What do you mean women outperform men in running? The top 10 fastest runners are all men

[Helxig 45,330]

28 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

The reality you want will result in women only being able to compete in lower skill levels, and they can never be the top at any sports. They will be relegated to always being in something like fourth division. This will result in not getting paid much and no viewers.

Boooo I hate sports

[bionic 50,111]

biden is preparing to electioneer for 2024 and he is picking his battles... unfortunately human rights have been sidelined accordingly