Bretman Rock on beauty community

[Geish 28]

I agree! 

[Future Lovers 6,965]

25 minutes ago, moonsago said:

Manny is Mexican-American, Nikita is not white, Gabriel Zamora is not white + other non white beauty gurus had drama also. 
But still, even if they were all white, what does that have to do with their race? Imagine if they were black and someone said ‘black people ruined the makeup community’, people would flip, and rightfully so because it’s irrelevant to bring in their race and indirectly make it seem like their race has something to do with their character as people. 

Well race DOES have something to do with it, he’s just wording this poorly.

The beauty industry used to be incredibly diverse when it came to who was visible in it but it’s now dominated by Jefree, James, Tati, etc. Because they’re white, they were allowed to have a larger platform and grow more visible to the general public than artists of color. Their drama and controversies have painted an unflattering picture of the industry yet they continue to be successful and have careers despite being problematic. Beauty artists of color meanwhile get a fraction of that despite being more talented, more innovative, and more respectful of the art.  

It’s another case where yes white people came into a diverse space and took over the lion’s share of it leaving the artists of color to feast on the scraps. 

He’s saying it very poorly but the point is not moot. 

[Ziggy 11,896]

22 minutes ago, moonsago said:

Manny is Mexican-American, Nikita is not white, Gabriel Zamora is not white + other non white beauty gurus had drama also. 
But still, even if they were all white, what does that have to do with their race? Imagine if they were black and someone said ‘black people ruined the makeup community’, people would flip, and rightfully so because it’s irrelevant to bring in their race and indirectly make it seem like their race has something to do with their character as people. 

Well, since y’all love doing this weird “all races are totally equal so you can just flip it.” It’s Black people and other POCs that built the beauty community into what it is first and foremost. So saying that white people ruined it is saying that these white people that came into it with their annoying drama ruined something they didn’t even build. That’s the statement. “That’s not about race.” It is. They came into a space that wasn’t there’s originally and bc of their whiteness, they were able to succeed in it. Then they coopted it for themselves (“ruined it”). Beauty is an ultra racist industry so arguing race is irrelevant to the industry is just wrong.

[moonsago 7,285]

2 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

Well, since y’all love doing this weird “all races are totally equal so you can just flip it.” It’s Black people and other POCs that built the beauty community into what it is first and foremost. So saying that white people ruined it is saying that these white people that came into it with their annoying drama ruined something they didn’t even build. That’s the statement. “That’s not about race.” It is. They came into a space that wasn’t there’s originally and bc of their whiteness, they were able to succeed in it. Then they coopted it for themselves (“ruined it”). Beauty is an ultra racist industry so arguing race is irrelevant to the industry is just wrong.

... black people built the beauty industry? .... how? Black people are not the first to create beauty brands, what are you even talking about. 

[moonsago 7,285]

6 minutes ago, Future Lovers said:

Well race DOES have something to do with it, he’s just wording this poorly.

The beauty industry used to be incredibly diverse when it came to who was visible in it but it’s now dominated by Jefree, James, Tati, etc. Because they’re white, they were allowed to have a larger platform and grow more visible to the general public than artists of color. Their drama and controversies have painted an unflattering picture of the industry yet they continue to be successful and have careers despite being problematic. Beauty artists of color meanwhile get a fraction of that despite being more talented, more innovative, and more respectful of the art.  

It’s another case where yes white people came into a diverse space and took over the lion’s share of it leaving the artists of color to feast on the scraps. 

He’s saying it very poorly but the point is not moot. 

Allowed by whom? If black artists get a fraction of what white artists get who’s fault is that? I think you fail to see how the public is the one that brings people to the forefront, therefore it’s YOUR responsability if you want to see more diversity. Second, I literally named you a few non white artists that were very succesful during the heyday of the beauty community, and there were many more and still exist. Black artists are more innovative and talented just because they’re black? The logic please. And when did white people come into a diverse space and took over it? I am sorry but this sounds like a lot of nonsense, or at least a very dramatized take. 

[Red 98,098]

I mean, it's not right to generalize white people but white people have been generalizing the others for ages so who cares

[Future Lovers 6,965]

16 minutes ago, moonsago said:

Allowed by whom? If black artists get a fraction of what white artists get who’s fault is that? I think you fail to see how the public is the one that brings people to the forefront, therefore it’s YOUR responsability if you want to see more diversity. Second, I literally named you a few non white artists that were very succesful during the heyday of the beauty community, and there were many more and still exist. Black artists are more innovative and talented just because they’re black? The logic please. And when did white people come into a diverse space and took over it? I am sorry but this sounds like a lot of nonsense, or at least a very dramatized take. 

You can’t be serious.

Who’s fault is that? When have white people taken over diverse spaces for themselves?

Racism is institutional. Society is structured around it. It exists in anything and everything that we take part in. Every industry, beauty included, favors white people because modern society has been designed to favor white people. 

It is not the fault of people of color that racism exists. They’re victims of it, not the enablers of it.

I am a white person myself mind you, but I am aware of the fact that right this minute my privilege would allow me to get just as far on my skin color alone as a POC creator got on their talent and hard work because I wouldn’t face the obstacles that they are made to. I am not made to struggle or prove myself or told that I have to want it more or work harder or just be better to succeed because the door is already open to me. White people are privileged and whether they consciously do it or not, they use it to get ahead. They don’t have to fight to get taken seriously like non-white creators do. 

Yes, in the beauty world, creators of color are successful but they aren’t given the exposure or following or lip service that Jefree or James or Tati are and it has nothing to do with the later three being more deserving and everything to do with a system that favors them and is against the creator of color. 

A space that was once very wide ranging and diverse and open is now dominated by a handful of white people and that is a problem. 

[APPLAUSE4YOU 418]

One day someone can just call out the problematic people and stop making blanket statements about race. It just adds more fuel to an ever growing fire of generalizing all misfortunes on one group of people. Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

[moonsago 7,285]

17 minutes ago, Future Lovers said:

You can’t be serious.

Who’s fault is that? When have white people taken over diverse spaces for themselves?

Racism is institutional. Society is structured around it. It exists in anything and everything that we take part in. Every industry, beauty included, favors white people because modern society has been designed to favor white people. 

It is not the fault of people of color that racism exists. They’re victims of it, not the enablers of it.

I am a white person myself mind you, but I am aware of the fact that right this minute my privilege would allow me to get just as far on my skin color alone as a POC creator got on their talent hard work because I wouldn’t face the obstacles that they are made to. White people are privileged and whether they consciously do it or not, they use it to get ahead. 

Yes, in the beauty world, creators of color are successful but they aren’t given the exposure or following or lip service that Jefree or James or Tati are and it has nothing to do with the later three being more deserving and everything to do with a system that favors them and is against the creator of color. 

... what I asked and what you replied... I’m so sorry twitter brainwashed you like this. Anyways, let’s talk about these makeup insitutions that you claim favor white artists, during the heyday of the makeup industry one huge brand that offered these artists collaborations was Morphe... and guess what, white artists were not the only ones that got to release products with them. And Morphe is ONE of those brands. Also, during those times brand trips also existed & other forms of collaborations as well where non white MUAs also participated so I wish that before you spoke all that nonsense you bothered to check the facts. Non white MUA were being promoted and still are today. Also, tell us the time when the space was not dominated by white people and more diverse... since you keep reffering to it. And don’t take this as me saying racism doesn’t exist or that discrimination in the beauty industry can’t exist cause that’s really not my point. However, what you said doesn’t match the full reality of the topic at hand. 

[Shipper 13,078]

 I dont follow makeup artists on Youtube  but the ones whose dramas reach GGD and got spread OUTSIDE the beauty community were the drama sagas of Jeffrey Star, James Charles, and Tati Westbrook. Bretman was once a part of the community so he may know more inside information we dont.

With that said, I dont agree with how he said his statement. It was very clickbaity statement made for attention. Those people had dramas NOT because of their race, but cause they were just messy humans on their own.

[Stef666 4,604]

People saying you can't just flip the race issue are so ignorant. See you in 10 years when ''white people this or white people that'' comments are actually seen as problematic and we get a white rights movement just because racist POC genuinely believe it's ok to be racist to white people because of history. No honey, it ain't.

[moonsago 7,285]

4 minutes ago, Stef666 said:

People saying you can't just flip the race issue are so ignorant. See you in 10 years when ''white people this or white people that'' comments are actually seen as problematic and we get a white rights movement just because racist POC genuinely believe it's ok to be racist to white people because of history. No honey, it ain't.

They’re becoming the people they claim to hate. That’s what always happens when instead of truly choosing peace people choose revenge. This is a form of revenge, and they take it on the people that did nothing to them. And this only reinforces the idea that this kind of behaviour is rooted in the human condition, not in the white people condition. We really are the same. 

[REALITY 77,100]

I can't with y'all getting offended about the "white people" comment. 

Bretman obviously said it in a jovial manner, like he does with 90% of the things he says. 

But also, why choose to get offended over making jokes generalizing white people when they've objectively done much worse things to POC over the years. Like, forget the systemic racism POC face on a daily basis...but no...when you offend white people, it's suddenly "let's not make this about race". 

Also, queer people literally have the equivalent when it comes to straight people. A lot of queer people make generalized jokes towards straight people, yet y'all laugh about it all the time. What's next? Are y'all going to get offended on behalf of straight people?

[Future Lovers 6,965]

21 minutes ago, moonsago said:

... what I asked and what you replied... I’m so sorry twitter brainwashed you like this. Anyways, let’s talk about these makeup insitutions that you claim favor white artists, during the heyday of the makeup industry one huge brand that offered these artists collaborations was Morphe... and guess what, white artists were not the only ones that got to release products with them. And Morphe is ONE of those brands. Also, during those times brand trips also existed & other forms of collaborations as well where non white MUAs also participated so I wish that before you spoke all that nonsense you bothered to check the facts. Non white MUA were being promoted and still are today. Also, tell us the time when the space was not dominated by white people and more diverse... since you keep reffering to it. And don’t take this as me saying racism doesn’t exist or that discrimination in the beauty industry can’t exist cause that’s really not my point. However, what you said doesn’t match the full reality of the topic at hand. 

I answered that way because that is the point of the whole argument. 

You are pointing examples of beauty companies trying to promote diversity in the heyday of the industry. That would be a great example of a time where this space was more open to all kinds, or at the very least making an effort to diversify (the success of that is still debatable, but it was effort). 

We’re not in that period anymore. Today, the beauty industry is more online focused than ever and as such these beauty gurus and influencers have more power and influence in the space than ever. It is here that non-white artists are starting to get pushed out. 

With the emphasis now turning here, you are seeing that space being controlled by white creators. Yes, non-white creators have a platform but the existence of one doesn’t mean that there is anything in the way of equality for them. Their platforms will continue to come second to the movements that the Tatis and James Charles’ of the world are making. These creators will continue to be successful and have a following despite their numerous controversies and scandals whereas if a creator of color did the same things their time in that industry would be over. 

Makeup companies can do all this outreach they like but as long as they continue to partner with and promote the white creators and their brands disproportionately to the brands of POC artists then it is counterproductive. There is a very clear inequality between how white beauty influencers and non-white beauty influencers are treated by companies and audiences, and that is a result of an invasion of the space by privileged people with a platform content to benefit and do nothing to promote fairness and equality within the space. 

That is what they’re is referring to. Their just saying it in a very clickbaity and unproductive manner. 

[Future Lovers 6,965]

16 minutes ago, Stef666 said:

People saying you can't just flip the race issue are so ignorant. See you in 10 years when ''white people this or white people that'' comments are actually seen as problematic and we get a white rights movement just because racist POC genuinely believe it's ok to be racist to white people because of history. No honey, it ain't.

 

7 minutes ago, moonsago said:

They’re becoming the people they claim to hate. That’s what always happens when instead of truly choosing peace people choose revenge. This is a form of revenge, and they take it on the people that did nothing to them. And this only reinforces the idea that this kind of behaviour is rooted in the human condition, not in the white people condition. We really are the same. 

Reverse racism doesn’t exist but I’m gonna back out of this conversation before I say some things I regret later