nodandsmile 9,406 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 22 minutes ago, ZiggyZiggs said: spending money on fyi ads are very different from personally calling up members of the academy and begging to put a person's name on their ballot. and getting your friends to do the same. two very different things at least imo that's not the only thing they do like I said in my post!!! the fact that they go through all of that to force hype around certain competitors mainwhile this woman's director just waited till voting opened to tell his friends to spread the word and manage to get in with no precursors or hype before, that's what making me laugh! let's not act like these awards are about rewarding the best works, it's all a game... her camp was smarter! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Boy 3,040 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Isn’t that what an awards campaign is for? To campaign for someone you believe in? How stupid and dramatic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat 18,962 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, bionic said: Are you saying Gaga cheated? I’m talking about Penelope’s friends posting on Instagram and asking people to vote for her. Gaga was the one who got all the nominations like Viola this year but didn’t get in Oscars because someone else managed to convince their friends to vote for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIM820 1,659 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Meat said: Isn’t this the exact same thing that happened last year when Penelope Cruz replaced Gaga at the last moment despite not getting into any precursors? I remember all her Hollywood friends posting on Instagram and asking people to vote for her. No it isn’t. Penelope won the Volpi Cup for Best Actress in Venice, had some critics group nominations, and the film was occasionally being looked at for Best International Picture. It was also distributed by Sony so it had studio support and money. She was on Best Actress lists the whole season, so in no way was she a surprise like this. Statistically, Gaga should have been nominated and another spot would have been taken by Penelope, but there’s guesses Gaga didn’t get enough first place votes to secure it. The Academy also has a bigger voting base from Europe now, so that obviously helped Penelope. This situation is different because a studio wasn’t helping Andrea with screenings or ads. This really just comes from people making calls. I find it a little disingenuous to call it grassroots when she is represented by CAA, and that alone gives you access to contacts. If I remember correctly you need around 220 first place votes to secure a nomination, so they obviously found those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat 18,962 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 14 minutes ago, HIM820 said: No it isn’t. Penelope won the Volpi Cup for Best Actress in Venice, had some critics group nominations, and the film was occasionally being looked at for Best International Picture. It was also distributed by Sony so it had studio support and money. She was on Best Actress lists the whole season, so in no way was she a surprise like this. Statistically, Gaga should have been nominated and another spot would have been taken by Penelope, but there’s guesses Gaga didn’t get enough first place votes to secure it. The Academy also has a bigger voting base from Europe now, so that obviously helped Penelope. This situation is different because a studio wasn’t helping Andrea with screenings or ads. This really just comes from people making calls. I find it a little disingenuous to call it grassroots when she is represented by CAA, and that alone gives you access to contacts. If I remember correctly you need around 220 first place votes to secure a nomination, so they obviously found those. It was still weird how all of her A list friends were posting all over social media and asking people to vote for her. She got a few critic circles here and there but no SAG, BAFTA, Critics Choice or evening a Golden Globe nomination and then magically gets nominated after her friends start campaigning for her? I’m not saying it’s wrong but it’s almost the same story. Even the language they used was the same. “Watch this movie, it deserves more attention” “This is the best performance of the year” and so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIM820 1,659 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 4 hours ago, elijahfan said: I completely agree, we all know how these award shows work, she played the game like the others who admittedly had a big push from Sony, MGM and Amazon. They're just salty she used a slightly different method and they didn't see it coming. So I'm not sure why Andrea's 'white connexions' are suddenly more problematic than these equally white big corporations. Making it a race thing really is the cherry on top... If they actually wanted to tackle the real issues, they'd rethink the way the Academy works from top to bottom. Like, how they always give nods to the same films and the same genres. Award shows are just a big ad campaign. Everyone at the Academy is from the industry and has inherent conflicts of interests... so this is bullshit by definition. 2 hours ago, moonsago said: I am sorry but them trying to spin this into some racist thing is literally so gross and another example of woke becoming toxic af. They are literally trying to emotionally manipulate people into thinking that 2 other actresses didn’t get their noms because they happen to be black... violation of the rules or not, bringing in the race card when it’s not about ANY of that is ridiculous. And to act like Viola Davis of all people doesn’t have connections in Hollywood... white connections... seriously? Now everytime somebody black doesn’t get something it’s racism? This conversation is getting out of hand. 2 hours ago, bionic said: lets say that andrea's investigated and its found her nomination was illegal. is that a spot where a black woman could have been nominated? sure. does it mean it would have been a black woman nominated if she didn't? who knows who was the next on the list. singling out this nomination as racist is nonsensical. if the whole academy needs to be criticized for being dominated by white people (and that is a criticism that i would 100% agree with) then thats fine, but andrea's nomination itself? not really It don’t think it’s necessarily racist in the way people are explaining. Think of it more systematically. It’s always been an uphill battle for black women and nominations. The Academy has changed things in the last few years to be more inclusive overall. What hasn’t really changed is how nominations and campaigning work. Beyond the rules of it, there’s a system in place that is usually followed. So in 2023 the Academy is basically saying something like “we did all these things to be better for actresses like you, just follow this guide and chances are your performance will be recognized.” Obviously there are only 5 spots, but this guide has worked for all actors before and this is the best chance you’ll have. Well, apparently that’s not true. Instead, a white actress doesn’t follow that framework and still secures a nomination, largely in part because of a coalition of white actresses supporting her and making calls. So you have two actresses, Viola and Danielle, at varying stages of their careers, using the same guide that their peers use, the same guide Meryl uses - yet that still isn’t good enough. This is the first aspect of race/racism that I see in this issue. Now this “grassroots” campaign has highlighted other questions about nominations. If this could happen now, why hasn’t it ever been used before? For years there have been performances by black actresses (in big budget studio films) that have gone unrecognized, yet this power wasn’t deployed to get their nominations. Why didn't Gwyneth or Kate champion those performances for a nomination? Why this year? I don’t think people are saying Andrea or the other actresses involved are racist, but race has played a huge factor here. I think everyone involved- the system of campaigning, the Academy, studios, the actresses and even Andrea, play a role here. If Viola was still nominated and Andrea had just edged Danielle out of the spot, this probably all would be a bit quieter. But, even with everything she’s achieved, Viola missing this nomination just shows me black women are at a disadvantage automatically. It doesn’t matter what studio or amount of money is backing you. Because race is playing a factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolTrainerTerry 1,186 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Okay, but what about Ana de Armas getting nominated for the travesty that is "Blonde"? That seems like a bigger issue than this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIM820 1,659 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 32 minutes ago, Meat said: It was still weird how all of her A list friends were posting all over social media and asking people to vote for her. She got a few critic circles here and there but no SAG, BAFTA, Critics Choice or evening a Golden Globe nomination and then magically gets nominated after her friends start campaigning for her? I’m not saying it’s wrong but it’s almost the same story. Even the language they used was the same. “Watch this movie, it deserves more attention” “This is the best performance of the year” and so on. If you are basing it on what you have seen on social media, then sure I guess they are similar. The fact is that Penelope had studio backing and was already being campaigned for. Actors were being sent screeners and actually seeing her performance. Though she didn't hit precursors, she was shortlisted for them and winning at a major festival like Venice is a big deal. None of this was happening for Andrea. Thats why even the posts you are talking about seemed weird to people because it was as if a few random high profile people were screaming about something nobody else had heard of. An industry person posting about Penelope wouldn't really make any noise, because people actually knew about Parallel Mothers, especially the European branch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijahfan 24,378 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 2 hours ago, HIM820 said: It don’t think it’s necessarily racist in the way people are explaining. Think of it more systematically. It’s always been an uphill battle for black women and nominations. The Academy has changed things in the last few years to be more inclusive overall. What hasn’t really changed is how nominations and campaigning work. Beyond the rules of it, there’s a system in place that is usually followed. So in 2023 the Academy is basically saying something like “we did all these things to be better for actresses like you, just follow this guide and chances are your performance will be recognized.” Obviously there are only 5 spots, but this guide has worked for all actors before and this is the best chance you’ll have. Well, apparently that’s not true. Instead, a white actress doesn’t follow that framework and still secures a nomination, largely in part because of a coalition of white actresses supporting her and making calls. So you have two actresses, Viola and Danielle, at varying stages of their careers, using the same guide that their peers use, the same guide Meryl uses - yet that still isn’t good enough. This is the first aspect of race/racism that I see in this issue. Now this “grassroots” campaign has highlighted other questions about nominations. If this could happen now, why hasn’t it ever been used before? For years there have been performances by black actresses (in big budget studio films) that have gone unrecognized, yet this power wasn’t deployed to get their nominations. Why didn't Gwyneth or Kate champion those performances for a nomination? Why this year? I don’t think people are saying Andrea or the other actresses involved are racist, but race has played a huge factor here. I think everyone involved- the system of campaigning, the Academy, studios, the actresses and even Andrea, play a role here. If Viola was still nominated and Andrea had just edged Danielle out of the spot, this probably all would be a bit quieter. But, even with everything she’s achieved, Viola missing this nomination just shows me black women are at a disadvantage automatically. It doesn’t matter what studio or amount of money is backing you. Because race is playing a factor. While I agree race definitely plays a factor, the fact Viola and Danielle are at spots #6 and #7 isn't really Andrea's fault, that's just the way it is today in 2023. Viola Davis has been nominated three times and won in 2017, we can't say the Academy has a history of being unfair to her. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijahfan 24,378 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 6 minutes ago, CoolTrainerTerry said: Okay, but what about Ana de Armas getting nominated for the travesty that is "Blonde"? That seems like a bigger issue than this? Because her performance has been applauded by everyone including those who hated the film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichAssPiss 4,389 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 They HATE when grassroots campaigns work because they want the big money parties and events. They let Harvey Weinstein basically handpick Best Actress for a decade. It is all political. This is just small (i.e. cashless) politics, and that is bad for business. They want to keep their pool of holier than thou elitist talent in power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIM820 1,659 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, elijahfan said: While I agree race definitely plays a factor, the fact Viola and Danielle are at spots #6 and #7 isn't really Andrea's fault, that's just the way it is today in 2023. Viola Davis has been nominated three times and won in 2017, we can't say the Academy has been unfair to her in the past. Lol. If you are going to think about it in that way then sure, it isn't Andrea's direct fault they weren't nominated. However, it was Andrea's fault that she's involved in this campaign and she will have to face the consequences for it. Apart from the people who think racism is involved here, the big studios are not happy about this at all. Not going to bode well for her and future work. I have to say though I kind of explained how this isn't just "the way it is today in 2023." This is not how campaigning has worked. The whole point was that the ability or choice to do a grassroots campaign is not given to black actresses. It's either pay your dues and do the media circus, or don't get nominated. Historically people have gotten away with racism by saying "Oh well they haven't paid their dues enough to be recognized." It didn't matter the industry or job. Here the opposite is happening, though (of course) still to the advantage of a white person. I've already seen people saying if this would have started in October when the movie actually premiered, the convo would be very different. But instead they waited until the last possible minute. It was done poorly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Cowboy 11,670 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 6 hours ago, NATAH said: i thought the entire point of these things were connections, campaigns, bribes and paychecks? I think the saying is you 'buy' a golden globe but you 'win' an oscar but I mean money talks so who knows really Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichAssPiss 4,389 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 31 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said: I think the saying is you 'buy' a golden globe but you 'win' an oscar but I mean money talks so who knows really No, you also buy an Oscar. Or at the very least the chance at an Oscar. Almost nothing gets nominated without a major Oscar campaign and those cost at minimum around $500,000. Films that don't get s campaign from their studio are rarely even considered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijahfan 24,378 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 43 minutes ago, HIM820 said: Lol. If you are going to think about it in that way then sure, it isn't Andrea's direct fault they weren't nominated. However, it was Andrea's fault that she's involved in this campaign and she will have to face the consequences for it. Apart from the people who think racism is involved here, the big studios are not happy about this at all. Not going to bode well for her and future work. I have to say though I kind of explained how this isn't just "the way it is today in 2023." This is not how campaigning has worked. The whole point was that the ability or choice to do a grassroots campaign is not given to black actresses. It's either pay your dues and do the media circus, or don't get nominated. Historically people have gotten away with racism by saying "Oh well they haven't paid their dues enough to be recognized." It didn't matter the industry or job. Here the opposite is happening, though (of course) still to the advantage of a white person. I've already seen people saying if this would have started in October when the movie actually premiered, the convo would be very different. But instead they waited until the last possible minute. It was done poorly. I'm sorry but I'm still failing to see how Andrea's skin color has anything to do with it and what would have prevented a black actress from doing a "grassroot" campaign as well. I'm pretty sure Viola Davis has a lot of friends too in the industry. As a matter of fact, she's much higher profile than Andrea. At the end of the day, I'm not sure how this type of campaigning is worse than the "usual" way. People are just mad they didn't see it coming and it thwarted their plans. But sure, let's blame it on a woman who just played the game a little differently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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