Missy Elliott on sophomore albums: “If u play safe you will be BOXED in“

[ProdigyARTPOP 3,899]

1 minute ago, howsAnnie said:

I really don't think so. I think her contributions regarding mainstream LGBTQ+ acceptance and equality at the time cannot be overestimated and it's visible in both, the album and her political statements around its release. The whole debate around Don't ask don't tell directly preceded BTW back then and Gaga was very much involved, so she was already perceived as having a cause. I remember that some time after it dropped, Obama referred to her as 'your leader' speaking to some human rights activists at an anti-bullying event (because prior to that he sat down with Gaga and she had a chat with him about those issues). And she incorporated these themes in a very clever way in many songs on BTW, I'd say it's that and the religious imagery that's defining for the album. Other pop girls did it because Gaga did it.

I just remembered how she brought soldiers who were also part of the LGBTQ+ community to the Grammy Awards where she announced the album title (because of DADT). She really was the spearhead of this whole movement back then.

Thank you!! I couldn’t off the top of my head go into detail because I was trying to be as cohesive as possible but this is what I remember about the era, and Gaga’s empowering “Are You Listening???” speech as well as her PSA’s during her Gagavisions about DADT

[Future Lovers 6,662]

4 hours ago, WheresMy911Alice said:

Idk what other people think but I love Lorde's discography. It's the perfect representation of maturity and growth as an artist. I've so enjoyed experiencing her journey over the years 

I've been saying this since Solar Power came out. It was always unrealistic to expect anything different than the direction of that album. 

I've compared Solar Power's response to the response to Star Wars: The Last Jedi. The judgements made against it are not made on the actual work itself, but rather how much of the fan theories and expectations was absent. In both instances, the creator subverted expectations in a fresh and creative way, but because it wasn't what the fans had formed in their heads based on absolutely nothing, they interpreted being surprised as the work being bad. 

I'm confident that in 10-15 years, Solar Power will be looked at very differently than it is currently. 

[salty like sodium 1,178]

10 hours ago, holy scheisse said:

I think Kesha played it safe and suffered for it 

 

I think dua lipa obviously did not play it safe and helped usher in a new mainstream sound 

ironically, madonna's second album played it safe and yet that did not box her in in any way. kinda the same for taylor swift, etc. ultimately risk-taking ends up being rewarded in many instances when done at the right time and with a supportive audience

[salty like sodium 1,178]

8 minutes ago, Mr Mendes said:

I've been saying this since Solar Power came out. It was always unrealistic to expect anything different than the direction of that album. 

I've compared Solar Power's response to the response to Star Wars: The Last Jedi. The judgements made against it are not made on the actual work itself, but rather how much of the fan theories and expectations was absent. In both instances, the creator subverted expectations in a fresh and creative way, but because it wasn't what the fans had formed in their heads based on absolutely nothing, they interpreted being surprised as the work being bad. 

I'm confident that in 10-15 years, Solar Power will be looked at very differently than it is currently. 

honestly, i don't mind the fact Lorde wanted to try something different – in fact I encourage it. I just didn't like the songs she wrote this time around that much. But I didn't need it to sound like her previous two albums, either, and I was fine with the theme/vibe/concept. I just felt like the music wasn't quite where she could have gotten it quality wise. Just my opinion.

[Oriane 20,509]

That's interesting, when I think about artists I like, I realize that most of them went for a darker sound in their second album (it didn't define the rest of their discography though).

[Ziggy 11,327]

11 hours ago, howsAnnie said:

I really don't think so. I think her contributions regarding mainstream LGBTQ+ acceptance and equality at the time cannot be overestimated and it's visible in both, the album and her political statements around its release. The whole debate around Don't ask don't tell directly preceded BTW back then and Gaga was very much involved, so she was already perceived as having a cause. I remember that some time after it dropped, Obama referred to her as 'your leader' speaking to some human rights activists at an anti-bullying event (because prior to that he sat down with Gaga and she had a chat with him about those issues). And she incorporated these themes in a very clever way in many songs on BTW, I'd say it's that and the religious imagery that's defining for the album. Other pop girls did it because Gaga did it.

I just remembered how she brought soldiers who were also part of the LGBTQ+ community to the Grammy Awards where she announced the album title (because of DADT). She really was the spearhead of this whole movement back then.

For one, It’s never wise to attribute a movement to one person but especially to someone in the mainstream. There had been decades of work building to Gaga using her cache at the right time to advocate for change and I think she’d say the same thing. She did a lot of good acts and put her money where her mouth was, but she did not spearhead the work so much as give it a lot of mainstream attention. That’s great in its own right, but let’s not mistake it for the work of those grassroots organizers on the ground building the momentum that she could grab and accelerate even further.

[Ziggy 11,327]

11 hours ago, ProdigyARTPOP said:

I’d have to disagree with you and say that it feels like younmust have been experiencing completely different eras than the rest of us then, because I completely agree with the users comment, TFM was a complete 180 from the The Fame in terms of its style & musical substance. Bad Romance had an enormous and anthemic flair to it & the Rah Rah’s alone made it completely different than anything on the Fame,

 and in terms of BTW, the political landscape at the time was so afraid of uttering LGBT+ friendly lyrics, everyone was being metaphorical and skirting around the subject while Gaga took the bullets for everyone and explicitud mentioned the world she wished to help usher in, not to mention that Born This Way was actually the goth rock opera you’re saying TFM is. 

Bad Romance is very reminiscent in style to Poker Face. I’m not the first to say that. It was more matured euro dance pop but it was still very much that and following the a very similar song structure. It took what worked best on TF and amped it up while leaving the weaker bits behind. A 180 from TF would have been a Joanne lol or even a BTW to some extent. TFM is the yang to TF’s ying but they’d only be able to function that way if they had similarity—which they do. She took much of the formula of TF and showed a different approach to it, not an opposing one.

as for BTW, true. She was bolder than others at the time and that made her a trailblazer, but again, I think we’re overestimating legitimate impact vs perceived. BTW the album didn’t really break the culture or anything. It had an expectedly huge first single and then some solid performance (by Gaga standards) until MTN. Truth be told, I think was mattered more was her actions before BTW (like speaking at marches, DADT, etc.) and her announcing its release. That’s what made the girlies step tf up and try to get their empowerment songs out lmao And that’s perfectly fine. I think the largest genuine impact she had was with TFM which evolved what she had been doing, brought it to a darker place but not an unwelcoming one, and continued her track record for insanely catchy euro dance pop songs. Side by side, the only single that really stands out as different to a LARGE degree from TF is Alejandro. Telephone and Bad Romance very much are evolutions of the musical blueprint laid on TF. 
 

and all that is okay. It’s great, actually. But I think that’s why fans kinda put her in a box of the redone sound for so long. *musically*, her sound and sonic style didn’t differ dramatically until, really, C2C. It started a little with ARTPOP, but even though redone didn’t produce the songs, it was still largely classic Gaga (Big beats, big choruses, insane hook, verse pre chorus chorus post verse pre chorus chorus post bridge chorus outro).

[DavidLuis198 920]

13 hours ago, ProdigyARTPOP said:

 and in terms of BTW, the political landscape at the time was so afraid of uttering LGBT+ friendly lyrics, everyone was being metaphorical and skirting around the subject while Gaga took the bullets for everyone and explicitud mentioned the world she wished to help usher in, not to mention that Born This Way was actually the goth rock opera you’re saying TFM is. 

I totally agree with you here, I remember 2011 was a year of songs about acceptance (Firework, F**kin' Perfect to mention a few), but it was all too "general" love yourself, BTW came with a 100% queer message addressing all that stuff head on, without fear of calling names or tiptoeing around the subject

[gagaisitalian 3,573]

22 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I’d agree. With Gaga, it’s a weird one because she basically dropped music consistently through BTW so she never really had a huge “sophomore” album that’s clearly define apart from TFM. BUT if you wanna say TFM is the second album in that case, look at how people wish that Gaga was back still after all these years (a Gaga which morphed but was still decently present on BTW, for sure). Sonically, Gaga didn’t really have a big deviation until C2C. She very much had a “song structure” from the fame through ARTPOP that became familiar.

I'd say Born This Way is VASTLY different than TF/TFM. It might still be pop with similar hooks or rhythm, but she definitely took a lot of risks with grunge-sounds and rock inspiration.

And then, again, I'd say ARTPOP is extremely different than Born This Way, taking more inspiration from EDM. 

Gaga definitely changed her sound/look/vibe throughout the beginning of her career and paid the price when the risks didn't pay off but also reaped the benefits of staying fresh and exciting.