Bette Middler shares (potentially) transphobic tweet

[Pennywise 34,861]

27 minutes ago, En_Sabah_Nur said:

Yes I read this whole entire thread, and I can ALREADY see what this is all leading to…Smh  🙄😒

 

If that is your only concern about this, maybe you should do some introspection, sis. 

 

[CautiousLurker 16,578]

2 hours ago, En_Sabah_Nur said:

Yes I read this whole entire thread, and I can ALREADY see what this is all leading to…Smh  🙄😒

 

I presume the insinuation here is that she's gonna be cancelled and hated by the lgbt community same way JKR is because people need half a reason to tear an ally down and they're being 'unreasonable'

If that's what you're alluding to, I'd like to point out that the first time JKR tweeted out something transphobic, people weren't in an uproar and were very much ready to give her the benefit of the doubt, and the reason she's so disliked now is because since then she's made a plethora of transphobic statements and spread misinformation about trans people in an effort to promote gatekeeping of medical transition and make lives of already existing transpeople more dangerous

I don't see why anyone supportive of the trans community would take umbrage with this trend - people in this thread are very much giving Bette the benefit of the doubt, even tho she very much equated using inclusive language by press and medical professionals to conservatives stripping rights of women away - same conservatives who are doing everything they can to make sure trans people are forced out of existence

[GypsyVida 5,872]

I don't think she was being transphobic. She might not be aware that people use those words so that trans men are included, not to dehumanize cis women.

[Just A Holy Fool 1,882]

I think she used some rather unfortunate language, but I do not think she was being transphobic. I see it as her clapping back to the Roe v. Wade stuff...

[FrederickSpears 1,935]

Bette is a true ally to the LGBTQ+ community and always has been. It's being taken wrong.

[proxy 730]

JK Rowling, Macy Gray, now Bette Midler, wtf is this **** a Night of the living TERF's 

[ModernEcstasy 6,441]

I mean, come for my ignorant ass (if that’s how this comes across, but I promise that is NOT my intention. I support all people all rights and believe that we should all just be able to live our lives the way we want to, within reason of course). 
But I don’t think that Bette is being Transphobic. Here, she is talking about the rights of women. She does not mention the trans community at all. 
Can we not talk about women in particular without offending everybody else? Bette identifies as a woman and is talking from her perspective about her Gender. 

[Andrea B 16,358]

56 minutes ago, ModernEcstasy said:

I mean, come for my ignorant ass (if that’s how this comes across, but I promise that is NOT my intention. I support all people all rights and believe that we should all just be able to live our lives the way we want to, within reason of course). 
But I don’t think that Bette is being Transphobic. Here, she is talking about the rights of women. She does not mention the trans community at all. 
Can we not talk about women in particular without offending everybody else? Bette identifies as a woman and is talking from her perspective about her Gender. 

But thats the problem, this isn't about only women its also about people who can give birth. Bette is a gay ally for sure but does anyone has proof of her supporting the trans community? All I have its a transphobic tweet from her about Caitlyn Jenner.

 I hope she’s just confused about the terminology, if I’m right an apology will be posted this week bc even if she did it intentional or not, her tweet is causing a lot of harm to trans men, nb people who can give birth and even us trans women bc for some reason people ALWAYS include us in this topic even tho we cant give birth. 

 

[POP2 4,205]

She’s not wrong. Birthing person is damaging language whether it’s meant for good reason or not. At some point, inclusivity becomes a burden and detriment to society - this is an example of that. Trans men who become pregnant are an extremely small minority when compared to women who are pregnant. This language strips women of femininity and, quite frankly, is dehumanizing. “Menstruaters”, “people with vaginas”???… Come on! At some point, we need to reflect on our “inclusive” language and realize it’s causing more damage than good. 

The issue doesn’t stop at “birthing people”, though. We are being asked to refer to breast feeding as “chest feeding”. Women have breasts, some trans men have breasts, some cis man have breasts (I mean we all technically have breasts). But only biological women have ample amounts of milk in their breasts to produce food for a child. This is much more than language semantics, this is an attack on women’s biology. If this language causes trans people to have gender dysphoria, gender crisis, or mental health issues, they should be referred to a psychologist. 

I understand this post will get a lot of hate but I’m genuinely asking you guys to look at how this language can affect women. Also, research the “horseshoe theory”. 

[LaLuna 12,732]

I really, REALLY doubt that Bette meant it in a transphobic way. She's just being supportive of women's right to choose. This was definitely directed at men/pro-lifers who think a woman's only purpose in life is to procreate.

[StrawberryBlond 13,287]

Regardless of the intention of this tweet, it brings up a very timely subject: the new wave of gender terminology that is displeasing cisgender women, which is a very valid concern. It's very clear at this point that there needs to be some sort of meeting held where we can come to a respectful agreement about what terminology can be used to truly please everyone because these new terms aren't cutting it. The problem is that terms like "menstruators," "pregnant people," "birthing people" and "people with vaginas" weren't discussed with cisgender people before being rolled out. Cisgender people were not consulted about these terms and asked how they felt about them, but nevertheless were told these terms were appropriate to be used for everyone in certain situations and failure to comply would be read as transphobic and discriminatory. While I can definitely understand why transpeople and nonbinary people preferred this new terminology, there seemed to be no thought given to the cisgender women who did not feel comfortable with or identify with this terminology and actually found it disrespectful and dehumanising. Yet, they were told that they had to use it. It's very odd that this so-called "inclusive" language disregards the feelings of an entire gender identity. For terminology to be truly inclusive, it must be accepted by everyone. If cisgender women are not onboard, it can't be inclusive.

It is very strange that cisgender people are never asked about how they view their gender identity and what their preferences and sensitivities are. I think this is the reason why they get so offended when new gender terminology arrives that includes them but is something that they don't like. Because they're never asked their opinion on it or asked to come up with a term they'd prefer. So, seeing as there's so little asked about how they feel, I, as a cisgender women, will attempt to give a brief run-down of how most of us regard our gender identity: We've been called girls and women our entire lives, no other terms preceding it, so being asked to add preceding words or completely change the entire terminology doesn't sit right with many of us. Also, while being called a person may be appropriate and respectful in some situations (example: "You're a good person," "You're the best person for the job," etc). there are other situations where being referred to as "women" is best. When talking about our body parts and bodily functions, we prefer to be referred to as "women" because we're talking about things that connect us very strongly to our femininity and don't like this to be erased. When we are called "people" in these situations, you'd think in theory that there would be no problem as that word by its very nature evokes humanity. But it's not as simple as that in our minds. It is the body part or bodily function that precedes this word that gets to us because it reduces us to our bodily functions yet simultaneously strips us of the feminine feeling that accompanies it by following it up with a gender neutral term of "person." Basically, we don't like any conversion about our bodies and bodily functions to be neutralised. We find it disrespectful and dehumanising.

This is just my take on it, but I personally see no issue with hospitals using terms like "pregnant person" and "birthing person" when referring to transpeople and nonbinary people but using "pregnant woman" and "birthing woman" (though I've never heard this specific term before) when dealing with cisgender women. That way, everyone is considered. Why should everyone be referred to with the same gender neutral terms? We're all individuals. If our pronouns are to be respected, our preferred terminology when referring to other parts of ourselves should be too. Most people do not like neutral language where it's unnecessary. We need to respect that. If you want to be respected, you must also respect others. Cisgender identity should be handled the same way as any other gender identity: with care, respect and humanity.

11 hours ago, GypsyVida said:

I don't think she was being transphobic. She might not be aware that people use those words so that trans men are included, not to dehumanize cis women.

But the terminology that is including transmen is simultaneously dehumanising cis women. That may not be its intention, but it's happening nonetheless and we're always being told that intention doesn't matter, all that matters is the negative effects it has. In this case, it's good for one community, bad for another. We need to find language that includes transmen that also includes cis women in a way that they feel comfortable with. It can't be inclusive if an entire community doesn't view it that way. It's pretty much impossible to find neutral terms that please everyone so the best way is to respect the wishes of each community or individual as to the terminology that works for them.

[phantasmas 8,374]

she also posted this

ima need white ppl to stop acting like they aren’t their own oppressors 

THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE!!!!! 

[JLoveLamar 379]

On 7/5/2022 at 8:22 AM, Frederick said:

Bette is a true ally to the LGBTQ+ community and always has been. It's being taken wrong.

ALWAYS has been? She didn't even believe in gay marriage, for goodness sake!

[Wolf Boy 2,931]

11 hours ago, JLoveLamar said:

ALWAYS has been? She didn't even believe in gay marriage, for goodness sake!

When did she say this?

[Andrea B 16,358]

12 hours ago, phantasmas said:

she also posted this

ima need white ppl to stop acting like they aren’t their own oppressors 

THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE!!!!! 

white feminism