Belarus admits intent to enter Russia's war

[Dennis 8,391]

Just now, FfFfFfFF said:

You are right that we should asses risks objectively, however that means recognizing the difference between economic sanctions and a conditional declaration of war against Belarus.

We already sanctioned Belarus economically. They're not going to fear that anymore.

[FfFfFfFF 58,779]

Just now, Dennis said:

We already sanctioned Belarus economically. They're not going to fear that anymore.

Well yes, I'm saying that economic sanctions are one thing and a conditional declaration of war (as in, if you make a move on Ukraine we will make a move on you too) are not equall, one means taking a chance much more than the other.

[Dennis 8,391]

2 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Well yes, I'm saying that economic sanctions are one thing and a conditional declaration of war (as in, if you make a move on Ukraine we will make a move on you too) are not equall, one means taking a chance much more than the other.

Okay then we can declare a "defensive special military operation" against Belarus. And we can focus on striking whatever troops there are on the ukrainian border.

[Future Lovers 7,838]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

Oh okay, so now we're not just afraid of Russia, but Russia's allies also. Cool!

I guess we're showing that the best way to get what you want from the West is to act like an unhinged madman. And suddenly everyone will let you, and your allies do whatever the heck you want.

Like I said, I don’t agree with how they’re handling it so don’t come at me for their ineffectiveness mama 

I don’t think that the US needs to be involved in a war because we haven’t actually won one since 1945 and our being there will only make a bad situation worse. 

However, I agree that we can put a lot of pressure on Russia and it’s allies that would be just as effective but we’re not. All I’m saying is…it’s not gonna happen. It should, but it isn’t. It never will. No one in NATO is going to risk a direct conflict with Putin because they know the risk for it getting out of control is high. 

I appreciate your energy, but you’re unfortunately screaming into a void. Nothing you or I say is going to change minds that are already made up. 

[Magui 2,659]

16 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Okay then we can declare a "defensive special military operation" against Belarus. And we can focus on striking whatever troops there are on the ukrainian border.

( I laughed at the defensive special military operation... you see that only works for Russia)

NATO or the rest of the world needs to be very rational and careful with  words even.  Honestly it seems that Russia will say and do whatever they want and we will be here waiting, seeing, hoping that somehow Putin it's satisfied and stops. Unfortunately Ukraine will be bombed until Putin gets whatever he wants and that's it, and we ( UE, USA...) will help with what's left of the country.  In the beginning of this, i thought that NATO, important countries in Europe like England, France, Germany could somehow put Putin in place, that supposedly the sanctions would make him back down, but it does nothing, and will do nothing. One thing  i heard on few occasions is that we can't embarrassed Putin, and we must give him a way out, so you see that's not  much to do. Sometimes i think like you we should answer him with same coin but idk the costs of it, and nobody it's interested on knowing it, perhaps it's the best thing, idk.

[Florian 20,017]

Some of you act like you know better than the thousands of people specialized in this topic within all the NATO members  You don't have access to a tenth of what NATO intelligence has and you keep babbling

[Angemon 489]

2 minutes ago, Florian said:

Some of you act like you know better than the thousands of people specialized in this topic within all the NATO members  You don't have access to a thenth of what NATO intelligence has and you keep babbling

ikr after the little managers, now we have the little geopoliticians 

[Dennis 8,391]

35 minutes ago, Florian said:

Some of you act like you know better than the thousands of people specialized in this topic within all the NATO members  You don't have access to a tenth of what NATO intelligence has and you keep babbling

Yes yes and they failed miserably.

Just two days ago, I was watching Macron's new documentary, and gosh was it so embarassing. I couldn't believe that was how the president of France was dealing with the war in real time. The guy thought he was filming a Netflix movie or something, taking things so casually.

They have access to intelligence sure. But they clearly don't know how to make use of any of it.

[Florian 20,017]

13 hours ago, Dennis said:

Yes yes and they failed miserably.

Just two days ago, I was watching Macron's new documentary, and gosh was it so embarassing. I couldn't believe that was how the president of France was dealing with the war in real time. The guy thought he was filming a Netflix movie or something, taking things so casually.

They have access to intelligence sure. But they clearly don't know how to make use of any of it.

This thread is pretty much a depiction of the Dunning Krugger effect. And we both know why and where

[Economy 53,130]

17 hours ago, Debithius said:

And I am tired of everyday people wanting to push for a world war and telling NATO what to do when these exact same people would choose to not even fight it. And how is it that you still don't understand that world War 2 was fought during different circumstances? 32 countries in NATO alone plus Russia, China and possibly many more in Asia would fight each other with nuclear weapons available. NATOs thing is to shield itself and nobody else outside of it and NATO is actually not obligated to do anything either. Thats why it is called a defensive alliance, going to war against Russia would just prove him and the rest of the world that NATO is an offensive alliance and would cause more harm than good.

Yeah, I get it, Ukraine is getting massacred and the west is supplying Ukraine with every bit of help possible at this moment. Bombing Russia or going to any type of direct attack would cause a devastating shockwave throughout the entire world too. This is not just some "Go in and fight" thing.

This. The whole let's attack Russia already is more of an emotional response and less of one of thinking it thru

 

Yeah what's happening is disgusting but it's a situation without any perfect solutions. Going on a direct offense is likely to get even more people killed 

 

In such delicate situations every action and decision has to be pondered and scrutinized. And so far we haven't pushed Putin to the point where Nukes are being sent off.

 

We do not wanna go to that point cuz once u go down that road there's no coming back from it 

[Ziggy 14,301]

Lukashenko is a pig

[Sergey Zabornikov 2]

Each day I pray these old men just die...

[Dennis 8,391]

4 hours ago, Economy said:

This. The whole let's attack Russia already is more of an emotional response and less of one of thinking it thru

 

Yeah what's happening is disgusting but it's a situation without any perfect solutions. Going on a direct offense is likely to get even more people killed 

 

In such delicate situations every action and decision has to be pondered and scrutinized. And so far we haven't pushed Putin to the point where Nukes are being sent off.

 

We do not wanna go to that point cuz once u go down that road there's no coming back from it 

First of all, Ukrainians today don't need more hollow words. Saying it's disgusting etc while doing nothing to effectively help stop this doesn't matter at all. If we are truly disgusted by this, then we need to act accordingly.

You deeply misunderstand Putin and russians if you think that the reasons nukes haven't been sent off is because "we haven't pushed him to the point". He already wants to nuke us. The pragmatic question here is "can he"? The reason why he hasn't done it yet, is simply because he knows the repercussions will be severe. Russia still has many neutral countries it continues to do business with. The use of nuclear weapons will almost certainly turn every country against Russia, including China and India. They don't want radiation on their continent.

So for Putin to use nuclear weapons, Russia will have to face a legitimate existential threat, and not his own definition of it. The type of scenarios for this, is NATO literally advancing on Moscow and such.

Putin is not going to use nuclear weapons because we warn Belarus to not go to war or because we do strikes on belarussian armies crossing Ukraine. He's not going to do nukes because we send Ukraine more advanced weaponry. But what he can do, is use the madman theory to make you not want to take any action against him. And you are the proof that it's working to the fullest extent.

Russians are fully aware of this, and if you read their media, see what they post on telegram, read opinion polls, or watch videos of what the average russians say, you'll understand their mindset. They see the West backing down as a validation of their strategy and they get more confident in wanting more. You backdown from Ukraine, they'll go to Moldova next, and then they'll go to the baltics. According to NATO's tripwire plan, the baltics would fall easily to Moscow and then NATO would liberate them later within 180 days. NATO claimed they'll improve the plan but we still don't have new studies showing the readiness of the new plans. So Russia could move in, occupy them, hold a fake referendum for annexation and then claim that any NATO attempt to liberate them is considered an attack on the russian federation. And he already used this tactic with Crimea recently (and there's a reason he's moving to quickly annex Kherson) I guarantee you that people here will be saying the same thing when that happens "let's not anger putin, we dont want ww3, it's sad what happened in the baltics but we cant risk it", and it'll go on and on and on.

This is the naive mistake you and many others are making, you think that Putin will stop here and that appeasement works. People who are obsessed with war and expansion speak only the language of force. Weakness begets aggression. The more you show yourself to be afraid of them, the further they'll go. Nobody is asking to attack Russia today, but we also need to show that we're standing our ground. You gave him Crimea, he wanted small parts of Donbas for the rebels, you gave him Minsk agreements with that territory for the rebels, now he wants the whole Ukraine. This strategy has failed. And people who don't see it are simply in denial.