Trans women banned from swimming competitions

[Not The Real Gaga 7,599]

19 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Ma'am please

Any stupidity and I'm banning, tbh. I'm really sick of the LGB's forgetting about the T's.

OT: So the justification is the misconception that MTF trans people are physically stronger, right? Isn't there science that proves that while that's potentially true in the short term, a fully transitioned person is hormonally identical to a person who was born in that sex?

I swear someone here brought the receipts that ~2 years after fully transitioning there's no significant difference whatsoever.

So...this is stupid

 

But what about bone structure and muscle strength and mass? I think those matter more than hormones.

In general, this is such a difficult topic to discuss.

[Economy 53,156]

Just now, PartySick said:

Interesting point about this, there's actually a push to desegregate sports by sex and instead group athletes together by ability or body type 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paralympic sport has been forced to deal much more closely with the issue of classification owing to the range of bodies that compete.

In the 1990s, the classification system changed to one that was based on functional ability rather than on medical conditions. It continues today, where rather than labelling athletes as having a particular medical condition, they are placed in a racing category based on the movements their body can perform, related to the sport they compete in.

We suggest that in able-bodied sport, it would similarly make sense to remove the label of male or female and replace it with categories based on the ability of bodies to move in that particular sport. This is a confronting notion, as we are not used to thinking about sex and gender as based on particular traits.

In sport, movement is based on physical ability, which is not necessarily linked to sex. In each sport, it would be possible to identify the characteristics which make up a successful athletes and create categories based on those rather than on sex.

For example, for a 100m sprinter, the ideal athlete would perhaps be made up of muscle mass and fast-twitch fibres. Therefore, rather than classifying by sex, sprinters could be classified by their level of muscle mass and fast-twitch fibres.

In another example, in sports such as high jump, volleyball and basketball, athletes could be classified according to muscle mass and height.

Finally, in an endurance sport, athletes could be classified according to muscle mass and lung capacity. An example of categories under our alternative model is presented below.

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I mean...I could not care any less about sports if I tried but this idea sounds fine to me

It'd be like different weight classes in MMA or something, you know?

I would actually support this tbh. Although males and females have certain tendencies in which they tend to be most proficient in it will still vary from individual to individual and there's a certain range. 

 

That being said could this make it potentially harder for women to make the qualifications in the first place since Olympics accepts the best performing at tryouts? Could it not potentially cause under representation in women

 

To prevent that they might have to go beyond just weight, height etc. They may have to try to measure strength and stuff more precisely

[PartySick 174,663]

Just now, Economy said:

I would actually support this tbh. Although males and females have certain tendencies in which they tend to be most proficient in it will still vary from individual to individual and there's a certain range. 

 

That being said could this make it potentially harder for women to make the qualifications in the first place since Olympics accepts the best performing at tryouts? Could it not potentially cause under representation in women

 

To prevent that they might have to go beyond just weight, height etc. They may have to try to measure strength and stuff more precisely

Yeah, it'd be difficult to figure out and a job for the experts who work in sports and medical fields but we can all agree that banning trans athletes will never be the right answer so...another solution has to be found

[Guest]

What about transmen in men competitions?

[Fanta 5,019]

30 minutes ago, Simon said:

  

That's not true, sadly. The differences will be there for the entire life. Of course, they will become smaller over time, but trans women will always have a predisposition to certain male characteristics. And men are statistically stronger and better at sports. A trans woman will not be as good at sports as a man, but she will be much stronger than a woman. So there is a very great injustice for women to compete with trans women.

In my opinion, people after transformation should compete in a separate category. I know it's a bit hurtful but It's fair for everyone.

 

30 minutes ago, NATAH said:

just make a trans category already  that way everyone can compete on an undeniable fair playing field and transphobes can go kick rocks

Basically this. Trans categories/teams sounds like the most legit and fair lane (as far as strength and ability are concerned). 

And I have to clarify since this is a touchy subject - this is not to say that trans segregation is the norm, but that this is based on scientific studies regarding physical ability post-hormones only. It’s sad that I have to say that, but it’s so easy to misunderstand. 

[Simon 1,553]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

 

Basically this. Trans categories/teams sounds like the most legit and fair lane (as far as strength and ability are concerned). 

And I have to clarify since this is a touchy subject - this is not to say that trans segregation is the norm, but that this is based on scientific studies regarding physical ability post-hormones only. It’s sad that I have to say that, but it’s so easy to misunderstand. 

Yes of course. It's really touchy subject. We want the best for trans people and that they feel good in their skin and with their transformation, but from a biological point of view, it is not that simple, sadly.

[HIM820 1,874]

I already hate the push for more “separate but equal” crap in 2022, but even if that is the only option isn’t it just an ideal and not realistic? 
 

Which sports governing bodies are going to honor these leagues? How will they get funding? Fan support? Female sports already gets a huge amount of hate and vitriol, how will they manage something 10x worse being directed at them because they’re all trans women or men? There seems to me more transphobic rhetoric being popularized than there was 5 years ago. States debate criminalizing parents if they get their own children therapy, on the grounds of it being child abuse. So this makes that all seem unrealistic, which means they pretty much can’t compete whatsoever. 

[MACATL 2,182]

I agree with the ruling and I support transgender rights.  These stances are not in conflict IMO. 

[Meruk Holland 2,444]

53 minutes ago, Simon said:

What are you talking about? Whether you like it or not, men are better at sports and removing gendered categories would mean that women would never win. This is biology. 

Here https://blog.sportsrecruits.com/2017/03/06/using-top-swimming-times-to-find-your-best-fit/

You can find average times for the best woman and for the best men. There isn't a single better score for a woman than for men

 

[Simon 1,553]

1 minute ago, Meruk Holland said:

 

Of course there are sports in which women are better in general than men, but We're talking about swimming here. And only about that.

[Suuus 5,632]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

  

That's not true, sadly. The differences will be there for the entire life. Of course, they will become smaller over time, but trans women will always have a predisposition to certain male characteristics. And men are statistically stronger and better at sports. A trans woman will not be as good at sports as a man, but she will be much stronger than a woman. So there is a very great injustice for women to compete with trans women.

In my opinion, people after transformation should compete in a separate category. I know it's a bit hurtful but It's fair for everyone.

I dont think men are nessaserily better at sports then women i think it depents on what sport they are particating in

[Suuus 5,632]

12 minutes ago, Simon said:

Of course there are sports in which women are better in general than men, but We're talking about swimming here. And only about that.

Maybe you should have clerifyed that in your first comment 

[LandonM170 686]

If we are gonna do this **** then I say we ban Michael Phelps then since he has an advantage due to his short legs and long torso when he is 6'4"

I can't stand the GOP I want to leave this country, so bad, but if I do then my vote won't be heard and then that is one less person to try and change this country.

[Dojo 19,823]

where? in the olympics? only in USA, in all competitions all over the world? 

[AbhainnTirim 368]

2 hours ago, PartySick said:

Interesting point about this, there's actually a push to desegregate sports by sex and instead group athletes together by ability or body 

Yes, this makes so much sense! I think some places actually already practice that to an extent. In South Africa a few years ago, a female runner was banned from competing some women’s competition because her testosterone levels were “too high”