Pope says invasion of Ukraine was perhaps somehow provoked

[TaylorSwift 162,283]

Pope Francis has said Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine was “perhaps somehow provoked” as he recalled a conversation in the run-up to the war in which he was warned Nato was “barking at the gates of Russia”.

In an interview with the Jesuit magazine La Civiltà Cattolica, conducted last month and published on Tuesday, the pontiff condemned the “ferocity and cruelty of the Russian troops” while warning against what he said was a fairytale perception of the conflict as good versus evil.

“We need to move away from the usual Little Red Riding Hood pattern, in that Little Red Riding Hood was good and the wolf was the bad one,” he said. “Something global is emerging and the elements are very much entwined.”

Pope added that a couple of months before the war he met a head of state, who he did not identify but described as “a wise man who speaks little, a very wise man indeed … He told me that he was very worried about how Nato was moving. I asked him why, and he replied: ‘They are barking at the gates of Russia. They don’t understand that the Russians are imperial and can’t have any foreign power getting close to them.’”

source

[bionic 50,111]

3 minutes ago, Teletubby said:

‘They are barking at the gates of Russia. They don’t understand that the Russians are imperial and can’t have any foreign power getting close to them.’”

Imperialism isn't something we should just accept. Not a surprise that a Pope doesn't raelise that

[Benji 20,113]

Errrr no.

Other countries shouldn’t have to change their wishes because it might upset Russia.  If an Eastern European country wishes to join the EU or NATO, that is between them and the countries they wish to join.  It has nothing to do with Russia.

[Regina George 59,387]

Lmao the audacity

[Helxig 45,329]

I'm writing his name in my death note. Scribble scribble

[berlinforme 5,385]

Yassss papa, give us more reasons to leave your homophobic, genocide enabling church 

[Guest]

I cant stand the Pope, ugh. Hes on my top 10 of famous figures i just cant stand at all. People love to bash Queen Elizabeth but to me shes less annoying than the Pope who always opens his mouth to say dumb ****. He opens the ****ing window and says "STOP!" and thinks the world will stop and be nice again for "God". So much for his "God", that only exists in his mind, creating rules out of his ass while priests abuse children and he says nothing, he never goes out to open his dumb window to tell priests to stop. But as for gay people or when it's things that have nothing to do with him oh now he opens his mouth. All in the name of an idea that's not even here to speak themselves, let alone write a ****ing book, a book written by dumb men who hate women and anyone different from them but yes sure, we'll listen to u cus ur sooooooo important

[FfFfFfFF 58,060]

Russia is taking territory because is being provoked, therefore the Pope should donate Vatican City and all the poltical titles he holds to Russia to appease Putin and put an end to the war. 

[GANGIE 5,430]

As a Christian, I'm ashamed... That's all I can say.

[blzr 1,589]

Cancel ha! 

[Juan Ibarra 13]

1 hour ago, Benji said:

Errrr no.

Other countries shouldn’t have to change their wishes because it might upset Russia.  If an Eastern European country wishes to join the EU or NATO, that is between them and the countries they wish to join.  It has nothing to do with Russia.

This I agree with. That's why I think the pope, even tho he and what he represents is problematic af, is right. I think we should move on with the US good, Russia bad narrative. The US has created armed groups in Latinamerica to overthrow leftist governments democratically-elected. That's also imperialism. If you condemn what Russia is doing to Ukraine, but turn your eyes away from US history with latinamerican countries, you just don't want to realise that Nato is not the greatest neighbour to have. Im not justifying the war in Ukraine, this should've never happened and it needs to stop immediately. 

[Bebe 17,289]

Not a fan of the Pope and the invasion of Ukraine is a humanitarian disaster that is unjustified. I want to make that as clear as possible before people start creating a straw man of my argument.

He isn’t totally wrong in saying that NATO played a part in escalating and raising tensions.

For those who care:

This video was made SIX YEARS ago but is very relevant in todays crisis. You could easily believe this lecture was made yesterday.

 

Some Key points:

- The West is principally responsible for the escalations regarding Ukraine.

- The aim of the United States and Europe has been to incorporate Ukraine into The West and make them a “Western Balwark” right next to Russia when it has always been a “Buffer State”

- NATO (military)/EU (economic) expansion eastward with the Baltic states (as well as making statements welcoming Ukraine and Georgia’s aspirations for membership) is threatening and Russia has always been against it. The 2008 war in Georgia was an exact response to this.

- The 2014 coup of Ukraine was caused by the EU trying to create a deal with Russia that would cut Russia out of the pie economically.

- Russia is a great power and doesn’t want The West to take a big piece of strategic real estate and incorporate it into The West (Shouldn’t be surprising to the U.S considering the Monroe Doctrine - basically saying the Western Hemisphere is their backyard and no foreign forces are allowed in their backyard - President John F. Kennedy cited the Monroe Doctrine as grounds for the United States' confrontation with the Soviet Union over the installation of Soviet ballistic missiles on Cuban soil… I.E Russia putting Miltary forces in the backyard of the U.S is a big no and is seen as a provocation).

- Imagine China making military alliances with Canada and Mexico, moving military forces into these countries and influencing them politically and economically. How would the U.S feel? They would enact the Monroe Doctrine the same way they did in the Cold War. Why would we believe Russia would feel differently about NATO/EU expanding their Military/Economic influence into their backyard?

- Balance of power is still important. While the U.S sees this push for Democracy and their political ideals as at best positive and at worst benign however other great powers (China, Iran , Russia) have clearly stated they don’t see it that way and we need to understand how these powers think and why they think this way. The U.S is focused only on their perspective.

- The EU rejected Russia’s economic rescue plan for Ukraine what would have included themselves, the IMF and the EU and continued to foolishly push their own economic interests.

- Security strategic interests are of the highest importance to any country and Ukraine is a vital security interest of Russia (as they have made clear for decades). Economic strategies are important, but won’t be valued above security interests (meaning sanctions are not going to stop them, when their security interest is threatened).

-The US has also made statements clearly indicating Ukraine is NOT a vital security interest to them while wanting to incorporate them into NATO and wanting to give them an article 5 guarantee which should be reserved for VITAL security interests. Why risk military conflict over a country that is not a vital security interest for you but is for another nuclear world power?

- The U.S over the past decades has focused on isolating Putin’s Russia and cutting them off from the world economically and politically, essentially making them a Pariah state.

-The U.S and NATO should cease expansion into the east and should want Ukraine as a neutral state (which it was) and as a buffer state between NATO and Russia. The expansion of NATO/EU influence has clearly been seen as threatening to Russia, they have expressed as much, and U.S would feel the same if Russia/China expanded their military and economic influence west.

I think it is foolish and dangerous to believe that Russia isn’t acting in what it sees as its best interests. Of course it is. It is important to recognise WHY Russia feels it is acting in its best interest and what role both sides are playing in provoking and/or calming tensions.

[ProdigyARTPOP 3,910]

26 minutes ago, AnnaNicoleSmith said:

I cant stand the Pope, ugh. Hes on my top 10 of famous figures i just cant stand at all. People love to bash Queen Elizabeth but to me shes less annoying than the Pope who always opens his mouth to say dumb ****. He opens the ****ing window and says "STOP!" and thinks the world will stop and be nice again for "God". So much for his "God", that only exists in his mind, creating rules out of his ass while priests abuse children and he says nothing, he never goes out to open his dumb window to tell priests to stop. But as for gay people or when it's things that have nothing to do with him oh now he opens his mouth. All in the name of an idea that's not even here to speak themselves, let alone write a ****ing book, a book written by dumb men who hate women and anyone different from them but yes sure, we'll listen to u cus ur sooooooo important

As a gay catholic this isn’t the take you think it is,

but to each their own 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, ProdigyARTPOP said:

As a gay catholic this isn’t the take you think it is,

but to each their own 

you have your beliefs i have mine so yes it's the take, it's my take, u have ur take and it's good for u

[ProdigyARTPOP 3,910]

3 minutes ago, AnnaNicoleSmith said:

you have your beliefs i have mine so yes it's the take, it's my take, u have ur take and it's good for u

and that’s exactly what I stated, that it’s a take and it might be your take which is fine, just your wording can come off offensive to others who have not felt a single need to come off angry or exasperated to get their point across