Russia to cut gas supply to Poland, Bulgaria

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53 minutes ago, Economy said:

Not my Country excluded from this list. Guess we're that irrelevant

Portugal doesn't import gas from Russia

[Economy 52,853]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

Poland has been preparing for this for a long time. And their reserves are 80% full.

So really what they mean is it won't have much of an impact in terms of supply available to consumers

[Economy 52,853]

34 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Portugal doesn't import gas from Russia

Then Portugal and Spain shoulda been in a 4th category of EU Nations of 0 dependance on Russian Gas 

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22 minutes ago, Economy said:

Then Portugal and Spain shoulda been in a 4th category of EU Nations of 0 dependance on Russian Gas 

The meme that Portugal always gets similar rankings to Eastern Europe in statistics wouldn't have held up.

[Economy 52,853]

12 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

The meme that Portugal always gets similar rankings to Eastern Europe in statistics wouldn't have held up.

I never saw that meme do u have it?

 

And not surprised. Portugal is like the least wealthy and productive economy on Western Europe. I once saw a ranking where Portugal had the second lowest GDP of Nations that were considered 1st World Developed with only Slovakia being below 

 

I wonder why too. Portuguese have a general good work ethic tbh. Infrastructures are in place, trade is well established, it has easy access to sea which is always an advantage, crime is not very high as to suppress a society. Politically it is not in unstable regime

 

I wonder what is holding back the Nation

 

Like having lived in Portugal and visited several times over the years... I do not see a significant difference in how people work, plan their lives and career paths etc. I do not see why the productivity there has such a big gap but for whatever reason it's there

 

I know Portugal took longer than much of the developed world to catch up to schooling and educational standards decades ago... I wonder if it is still feeling the scars from that. Never made their mark in critical decades of growth and now the businesses there struggle to put their foot and invest to be on par with other international companies. Once ur down getting urself up can be difficult

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31 minutes ago, Economy said:

I never saw that meme do u have it?

 

And not surprised. Portugal is like the least wealthy and productive economy on Western Europe. I once saw a ranking where Portugal had the second lowest GDP of Nations that were considered 1st World Developed with only Slovakia being below 

 

I wonder why too. Portuguese have a general good work ethic tbh. Infrastructures are in place, trade is well established, it has easy access to sea which is always an advantage, crime is not very high as to suppress a society. Politically it is not in unstable regime

 

I wonder what is holding back the Nation

 

Like having lived in Portugal and visited several times over the years... I do not see a significant difference in how people work, plan their lives and career paths etc. I do not see why the productivity there has such a big gap but for whatever reason it's there

 

I know Portugal took longer than much of the developed world to catch up to schooling and educational standards decades ago... I wonder if it is still feeling the scars from that. Never made their mark in critical decades of growth and now the businesses there struggle to put their foot and invest to be on par with other international companies. Once ur down getting urself up can be difficult

Yeah, the idea that Portugal is part of Eastern Europe is pretty much an established joke.  I don't have an answer as to why, maybe

1) lack of competition and external threat. One of the main drives of Europe's development was the constant need to progress, Germany for instance is exceptionally wealthy because it was broken up in thousands of independent statelets that competed with each other, meanwhile Portugal only borders Spain and the frontier is unchanged since the Middle Agles (the dispute with Spain over Olivenza is irrelevant enough to not affect my point).

2) There are differences culture-wise between Southern Europe and Central/Northern Europe. In Southern Europe, values such as family and cooperation are valued over discipline and hard order, people here don't have that Germanic spirit (however, this also appliesto Spain, southern France, Greece). Religion also can play a role, as from a Catholic perspective, money are seens as tool of the devil, while from the Protestant perspective, being rich is not only socially acceptable, but having money can be seen as the sign of your soul's salvation. Protestant nations are wealthier compared to Catholic nations, which themselves are wealthier compared to Orthodox nations because the latter's worldview is esentially ascetic while the former's worldview is esentially materialistic. Western Europe nations that are 1) Protestant + 2) bordering the Atlantic seem to have been the ones to develop economically the most.

[Economy 52,853]

31 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Yeah, the idea that Portugal is part of Eastern Europe is pretty much an established joke.  I don't have an answer as to why, maybe

1) lack of competition and external threat. One of the main drives of Europe's development was the constant need to progress, Germany for instance is exceptionally wealthy because it was broken up in thousands of independent statelets that competed with each other, meanwhile Portugal only borders Spain and the frontier is unchanged since the Middle Agles (the dispute with Spain over Olivenza is irrelevant enough to not affect my point).

2) There are differences culture-wise between Southern Europe and Central/Northern Europe. In Southern Europe, values such as family and cooperation are valued over discipline and hard order, people here don't have that Germanic spirit (however, this also appliesto Spain, southern France, Greece). Religion also can play a role, as from a Catholic perspective, money are seens as tool of the devil, while from the Protestant perspective, being rich is not only socially acceptable, but having money can be seen as the sign of your soul's salvation. Protestant nations are wealthier compared to Catholic nations, which themselves are wealthier compared to Orthodox nations because the latter's worldview is esentially ascetic while the former's worldview is esentially materialistic. Western Europe nations that are 1) Protestant + 2) bordering the Atlantic seem to have been the ones to develop economically the most.

I dunno how much the religion factor is a thing anymore. I never got the sense ppl viewed having a lot of money in a negative. Nor are the majority of people in this day and age that religious. Certainly not ppl under 60

 

Perhaps it had a greater impact in the past and so it's effects still ripple on just like advanced education being a little late also has lasting effects into today? I dunno just a theory

 

Personally I suspect Portugal is underperforming the rest of Western Europe economically more so because of past problems that have fueled lasting challenges now hard to get out of

 

Portugal's education may be up to date now... But in the 1970s, 1980s when every other developed Nation had people finishing highschool (or their equivalent of it) Portugal was only finally starting to get on board with that as a norm especially in rural areas. Those critical decades may have made innovation in Portugal's industrial and science sector poor compared to rest of Europe and North America. The companies did not make their mark in the same way and we're not as competitive. And now trying to break thru becomes difficult

 

That family over career u spoke of. I think also a bigger issue in the past. But it took longer for women to enter work force than in many other Nations again holding back potential output

 

And now with EU, it's so easy for young people to leave as many have to other Countries with higher wages. This acts as a drain on weaker EU Countries that are already down making it harder for them to recover. They are left with aged societies to care for and not as many youth to work, pay taxes and innovate creating a self fueling cycle

 

I think statistically based on current education, infrastructure, geographical area and political stability Portugal should be wealthier than it is. But I think a big issue is that it fell behind in the mid and second half of the 20th century and now catching up and creating a solid footing is a challange. Similar I think to when you have a young and intelligent person who should be well capable of a lucrative career but if born into multi-generational poverty they will have extra obstacles in their way that decrease their chances of that success because your starting from a lower point

 

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23 minutes ago, Economy said:

I dunno how much the religion factor is a thing anymore. I never got the sense ppl viewed having a lot of money in a negative. Nor are the majority of people in this day and age that religious. Certainly not ppl under 60

 

Perhaps it had a greater impact in the past and so it's effects still ripple on just like advanced education being a little late also has lasting effects into today? I dunno just a theory

 

Personally I suspect Portugal is underperforming the rest of Western Europe economically more so because of past problems that have fueled lasting challenges now hard to get out of

 

Portugal's education may be up to date now... But in the 1970s, 1980s when every other developed Nation had people finishing highschool (or their equivalent of it) Portugal was only finally starting to get on board with that as a norm especially in rural areas. Those critical decades may have made innovation in Portugal's industrial and science sector poor compared to rest of Europe and North America. The companies did not make their mark in the same way and we're not as competitive. And now trying to break thru becomes difficult

 

That family over career u spoke of. I think also a bigger issue in the past. But it took longer for women to enter work force than in many other Nations again holding back potential output

 

And now with EU, it's so easy for young people to leave as many have to other Countries with higher wages. This acts as a drain on weaker EU Countries that are already down making it harder for them to recover. They are left with aged societies to care for and not as many youth to work, pay taxes and innovate creating a self fueling cycle

 

I think statistically based on current education, infrastructure, geographical area and political stability Portugal should be wealthier than it is. But I think a big issue is that it fell behind in the mid and second half of the 20th century and now catching up and creating a solid footing is a challange. Similar I think to when you have a young and intelligent person who should be well capable of a lucrative career but if born into multi-generational poverty they will have extra obstacles in their way that decrease their chances of that success because your starting from a lower point

 

All of these are cultural, historical reasons. A nation doesn't become wealthy in a generation or two, also you may not notice but a person might as well have the markers of its civilizational space unknwingly. There are things that can get ingrained in one's mindset, for instance your average atheistic person might still retain some Catholic cultural tendencies, without him being ware of it (just an exemple).

The whole world becomes more irreligious each year, however in context Portugal and the Catholic world is slower in abandoning faith compared to the Protestant world. So, Portugal is not becoming disproportionately irreligious, but probably stagnant when you are looking at the broader picture.

Your point about education might be true, but you then need to ask yourself why Portugal took so long to formalize standard education like the rest of Europe, and the reason will likely still be cultural and historical conditions. It's not completely clear what is the cause and what is the effect, but Portugal lagging behind could clearly be related to people's worldview and culture (as in, Portugal is not behind because people started going to highschool late, instead Portugal had for generations a certain culture that valued cooperation and tradition over inovation and discipline, and this in turn let to certain aspects of social life being different compared to Central and Western Europe, including highschool education being implemented later in rural areas). 

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Bulgaria will import natural gas for Greece.