NCgaga 4,345 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 58 minutes ago, Debithius said: Let's be real, if the west/US intervenes any further a full out nuclear war could break out in Europe. Russia knows that the west doesn't want to risk this type of war. Literally no other European country wants to stand in Russia's way because if they do, nearly every European country will suffer devistating economical consequences. Which is also why European countries are so pissed about the US pushing Russia's buttons right now. US is most likely making empty threats and Russia doesn't care about further sanctions. Russia is the unpredictable psychopath that Europe made a mistake relying on for many things, but then again they didn't have any choice. The US isn’t making any empty threats. The US said it would start sanctions, and it already has. The US also said it will not give a military response to this situation, but will up sanctions and support Ukraine. This is the same stance in Europe. Please educate yourself on this before you go on a rant making this about the US. Why are people so obsessed about making this situation about America? Ukraine wanted to join Nato as sovereign nation, and Russia wants to invade and take Ukraine. Russia started this. In the modern World, the west is not going to respond positively to one country invading and taking over another country, and absorbing it into their regime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debithius 6,059 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 25 minutes ago, NCgaga said: The US isn’t making any empty threats. The US said it would start sanctions, and it already has. The US also said it will not give a military response to this situation, but will up sanctions and support Ukraine. This is the same stance in Europe. Please educate yourself on this before you go on a rant making this about the US. Why are people so obsessed about making this situation about America? Ukraine wanted to join Nato as sovereign nation, and Russia wants to invade and take Ukraine. Russia started this. In the modern World, the west is not going to respond positively to one country invading and taking over another country, and absorbing it into their regime. Dude, Europe literally told the US to back off after they said they would send enforcement, even Ukraine asked the US to not escalate the situation. The majority of Europe doesn't want to go to war for Ukraine. The US already plans to put sanctions on the Nord Pipe 2 which will cause serious economic consequences for Europe as well. Even Americans themselves wants the US to stop. Please, the west have a track record of doing jack **** when a country is invading another country if it doesn't benefit them. The US is literally doing the same thing as Russia, invading other countries to spread their influence. Escalating situations because it's in their interest, not because it comes from the bottom of their hearts. Europe has to be able to decide it's own fate without the risk of nuclear war. Ukraine wanted to join NATO sure but the US has always had an interest in Ukraine from a strategic standpoint and that's the only reason the US is doing anything. Any other country in Europe the US would have let the EU deal with it themselves, just as it should be in general. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberRaga 342 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, NCgaga said: The US isn’t making any empty threats. The US said it would start sanctions, and it already has. The US also said it will not give a military response to this situation, but will up sanctions and support Ukraine. This is the same stance in Europe. Please educate yourself on this before you go on a rant making this about the US. Why are people so obsessed about making this situation about America? Ukraine wanted to join Nato as sovereign nation, and Russia wants to invade and take Ukraine. Russia started this. In the modern World, the west is not going to respond positively to one country invading and taking over another country, and absorbing it into their regime. Let's not act like USA isn't profiting anything from wars. Arms industry brings USA 400 billion dollars annually. While USA isn't responsible how Russia acts, USA has heavily gaslighted, interfered into EU's politics and straight up funded the war(s) with the guns it has been putting out. Also, Biden's afraid of how the polls will look if USA's sanctions affect consumers gas pricing so hardly any significant sanctions have been given. War means money in the States, sadly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emvee 8,858 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, Debithius said: Dude, Europe literally told the US to back off, even Ukraine asked the US to not escalate the situation. The majority of Europe doesn't want to go to war for Ukraine. The US already plans to put sanctions on the Nord Pipe 2 which will cause serious economic consequences for Europe as well. Even Americans themselves wants the US to stop. Please, the west have a track record of doing jack **** when a country is invading another country. The west didn't do anything in 2014 either. The US is literally doing the same thing as Russia, invading other countries to spread their influence. Europe has to be able to decide it's own fate without the risk of nuclear war. Ukraine wanted to join NATO sure but the US has always had an interest in Ukraine from a strategic standpoint and that's the only reason the US is doing anything. Any other country in Europe the US would have let the EU deal with it themselves, just as it should be in general. So what exactly is Europe doing to help Ukraine? Let’s pretend the United States was not involved. What do you think Europe’s response would be? Because it seems to me like regardless of US engagement, Russia would still have supported the rebel areas. And, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe these sanctions have been coordinated among all western powers. Sure they said to back off before, but Putin’s recent speech changed all of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debithius 6,059 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, Eriq said: So what exactly is Europe doing to help Ukraine? Let’s pretend the United States was not involved. What do you think Europe’s response would be? And, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe these sanctions have been coordinated among all western powers. Sure they said to back off before, but Putin’s recent speech changed all of that. That's the thing, Europe literally said "Let Ukraine and Russia deal with it, we are not getting involved" and then the US started to interfere and that's why Europe asked the US to stop because the US is basically ignoring the economic consequences it will cause in Europe all in the name of self interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mike 2,783 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Ukraine isn't part of NATO and that is why this can't be considered an aggression of an ally (which could motivate action from all its members) But gladly the West is united in condemning the invasion, as this is also a combat between totalitarianism Vs democracy. 2014 sanctions did too little and Putin wants to guarantee that he doesn't care about them - and that he considers the West/NATO weak and dangerous to Russians. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCgaga 4,345 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 20 minutes ago, Debithius said: Dude, Europe literally told the US to back off after they said they would send enforcement, even Ukraine asked the US to not escalate the situation. The majority of Europe doesn't want to go to war for Ukraine. The US already plans to put sanctions on the Nord Pipe 2 which will cause serious economic consequences for Europe as well. Even Americans themselves wants the US to stop. Please, the west have a track record of doing jack **** when a country is invading another country if it doesn't benefit them. The US is literally doing the same thing as Russia, invading other countries to spread their influence. Escalating situations because it's in their interest, not because it comes from the bottom of their hearts. Europe has to be able to decide it's own fate without the risk of nuclear war. Ukraine wanted to join NATO sure but the US has always had an interest in Ukraine from a strategic standpoint and that's the only reason the US is doing anything. Any other country in Europe the US would have let the EU deal with it themselves, just as it should be in general. Your WHATABOUTISM is leaving out the fact that the US is responding as a responsibility of the NATO Alliance. Europe didn’t tell the US to back off, LOL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCgaga 4,345 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, NCgaga said: Double post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debithius 6,059 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, NCgaga said: Your WHATABOUTISM is leaving out the fact that the US is responding as a responsibility of the NATO Alliance. Europe didn’t tell the US to back off, LOL. First of all, Ukraine isn't yet a NATO member state which is why (like someone else said) it can't be considered an invasion of an ally, so they have no business in Ukraine which pisses Putin off even more which is also considered an escalation. Second, yes Europe and the US itself asked Biden to not escalate the situation for obvious reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberRaga 342 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 34 minutes ago, Eriq said: So what exactly is Europe doing to help Ukraine? Let’s pretend the United States was not involved. What do you think Europe’s response would be? Because it seems to me like regardless of US engagement, Russia would still have supported the rebel areas. And, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe these sanctions have been coordinated among all western powers. Sure they said to back off before, but Putin’s recent speech changed all of that. As I stated before, USA heavily profits from this war. I agree that Europe's response (along with USA) has been weak - even insignificant. Freezing NS 2 (btw, the whole reason this was even continued to be built was because of USA's sanctions to the Germany) temporarely tells you all about how ''efficient'' the sanctions are. However, EU tried to solve the problem with diplomacy and with a way that would affect economics as little as possible only for USA to gaslight (''War coming in next X hours'' for the past 2 months, clearing the embass in Ukraine causing even more panic, etc) the situation even more. It's all about money and it's working: for the first time USA is exporting more gas into Europe than Russia. I agree with the statement that Russia would've attacked Ukraine with or without USA's involvement. That's why I'm criticizing USA's (and EU's) sanctions: at the end of the day USA will be the only winner here and the whole response to the war is tied into the pockets of the politics in EU/USA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emvee 8,858 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 53 minutes ago, Debithius said: That's the thing, Europe literally said "Let Ukraine and Russia deal with it, we are not getting involved" and then the US started to interfere and that's why Europe asked the US to stop because the US is basically ignoring the economic consequences it will cause in Europe all in the name of self interest. Ok so let Russia invade and annex Ukraine, got it lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emvee 8,858 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, CyberRaga said: As I stated before, USA heavily profits from this war. I agree that Europe's response (along with USA) has been weak - even insignificant. Freezing NS 2 (btw, the whole reason this was even continued to be built was because of USA's sanctions to the Germany) temporarely tells you all about how ''efficient'' the sanctions are. However, EU tried to solve the problem with diplomacy and with a way that would affect economics as little as possible only for USA to gaslight (''War coming in next X hours'' for the past 2 months, clearing the embass in Ukraine causing even more panic, etc) the situation even more. It's all about money and it's working: for the first time USA is exporting more gas into Europe than Russia. I agree with the statement that Russia would've attacked Ukraine with or without USA's involvement. That's why I'm criticizing USA's (and EU's) sanctions: at the end of the day USA will be the only winner here and the whole response to the war is tied into the pockets of the politics in EU/USA. You make it seem like the US coordinated with Russia to create this conflict JUST to sell weapons. That’s such a US-centric way of looking at this. If Russia didn’t mess with Ukraine, there would be no reason to send Ukraine weapons... but first Crimea and now this? If Russia really wanted to solve this crisis, they would sign a treaty with Ukraine to make sure they don’t join NATO, but they won’t because they don’t actually respect Ukraine’s sovereignty. There’s a huge far right problem in Ukraine (as with in Russia lol) but that is a domestic problem, not Russia’s problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyaway 15,350 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 These are the times when we realize how useless the UN is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debithius 6,059 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, Eriq said: Ok so let Russia invade and annex Ukraine, got it lol I would rather that happen than a nuclear war thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbri 1,406 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 people will never learn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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