Rolling Blackouts Begin In Europe Amid Energy Crisis

[Economy 52,861]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Europe-Faces-Rolling-Blackouts-Amid-Energy-Crisis.amp.html https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2021/9/28/bb-this-is-why-europe-energy-prices-are-breaking-records

 

The first Nation in Europe (Kosovo) has started organized rolling blackouts to conserve power amid the energy crisis in Europe due to the Extreme gas shortage

 

Disputes with Russia over approving a pipeline which has led to retaliation of gas being held back, low and intermitend wind this fall causing more demand on gas production to offset it draining gas stocks and rapid power increase amid reopening are causes blamed for the gas shortage

 

Some Nations are a lot more strained than others. Some major economies struggling with very expensive electricity and a shortage include the UK, Germany, France, Netherlands are just some examples of Nations under strain tho so far only Kosovo a small Nation has had to resort as far as rolling blackouts

 

In Germany many manufacturers are struggling to pay very high electric costs... in the UK many suppliers are going bankrupt as laws dont always allow the full cost to be passed on to consumer

[Supersonic 49,376]

The fact that our government sabotaged the SOARING renewable energy projects of the early 2000s (especially the expansion of Solar Power), in order for us to be absolutely in Russia's chokehold because.... "more jobs in the energy sector & better profits"  The conservatives and neo-libs f*cked us over so hard.

[Economy 52,861]

9 minutes ago, Supersonic said:

The fact that our government sabotaged the SOARING renewable energy projects of the early 2000s (especially the expansion of Solar Power), in order for us to be absolutely in Russia's chokehold because.... "more jobs in the energy sector & better profits"  The conservatives and neo-libs f*cked us over so hard.

Maybe... but left ideas or mistakes on the pipeline or rushing to close nuclear in Germany for example before the power grid can comfortably handle it also contributed to this too

 

Plus intermitency in some renewables was part of what caused this also. Wind has not been as reliable as advertized even tho many would argue u cannot be too dependant on these sources without either more backup sources or adequate power storage.

 

I wouldnt turn this into an argument about left vs right cuz i see tendencies from both sides that both contributed to this tbh.

 

Its more like a situation that developed from years of many mistakes and a multitude of factors, and yes Russias hostility

[MADDONNA 234]

Well, its Kosovo

We dont expect that in EU!

[Economy 52,861]

16 minutes ago, MADDONNA said:

Well, its Kosovo

We dont expect that in EU!

Fortunately i dont see that in most EU Nations either

 

Tho the very expensive rates will probably remain at least thru the winter

 

Fortunately by spring it should start to improve

[Supersonic 49,376]

3 hours ago, Economy said:

Maybe... but left ideas or mistakes on the pipeline or rushing to close nuclear in Germany for example before the power grid can comfortably handle it also contributed to this too

 

Plus intermitency in some renewables was part of what caused this also

 

I wouldnt turn this into an argument about left vs right cuz i see tendencies from both sides that both contributed to this tbh

Oh no, I absolutely would turn it into an argument like this because the German power grid could have absolutely handled getting out of nuclear fine. From 2005 until 2021 the conservatives were the majority and government leaders. From 2005-2009 the social democrats were the coalition partners of the conservatives, most of the renewable energy laws from the socdem-green era were left untouched, out of respect for the coaltion partner. However, the neo-libs became the coalition partner of the consvervatives in 2009 after the federal elections. The decisions of that particular government essentially put us where we are today. They completely re-wrote the renewable energies law FOUR times over their four year reign (2009, 2011  & 2012).

You see, up until 2011, solar power was subsidized in Germany. The technology boomed, everbody and their mother had gotten solar panels on their roof. By 2009 solar power alone provided an extreme excess of electricity in Germany, causing lower overall prices for electricity on the market. This of of course had the non-renewable energy lobby fuming, they made less money from selling their coal and nuclear power. They heavily lobbied for the renewable energy companies to get taken down a notch, which the conservatives and neo-libs ofc loved because:

1. A lot of powerful conservatives and neo-libs owned stocks in non-renewable energy conglomerates
2. A lot of powerful cons and neo-libs were sitting on the boards of these conglomerates
3. A lot of powerful cons and neo-libs were CEOs of these conglomerates

So in 2011, the government decided to cut solar power subsidies by 15% by Jan 1, 2012, with each futher month cutting away another 1% of subsidies until there were no subsidies further left. This made the renewable energy market CRASH in Germany, the over 350 registered business relating to solar power in Germany in 2011 shrunk to less than 24 in 2018, which cost over 100,000 people their job. These cut subsidies were used to subsidize the non renewable energy sector, mainly the erection of new coal mines and coal power plants. The government also (artificially) reduced the prices of feed-in tarifs (aka: the price the government pays to its citizens to buy the solar power they produce with the solar panels on their roofs) Because of these factors it became so unprofitable (and in some cases even a net loss) to have solar panels on your roof, that citizens willingly tore them down again. Of course... the majority of the people still have them up, because removing them is expensive, but these measures have stifled their expansion, for the sake of expanding coal & gas energy instead. 

[nATAH 57,043]

how is there a gas shortage? just fart or somethin smh

[littlepotter 76,612]

 Nnnnn enjoy the lebanese experience

[Economy 52,861]

On 12/25/2021 at 3:44 PM, Supersonic said:

Oh no, I absolutely would turn it into an argument like this because the German power grid could have absolutely handled getting out of nuclear fine. From 2005 until 2021 the conservatives were the majority and government leaders. From 2005-2009 the social democrats were the coalition partners of the conservatives, most of the renewable energy laws from the socdem-green era were left untouched, out of respect for the coaltion partner. However, the neo-libs became the coalition partner of the consvervatives in 2009 after the federal elections. The decisions of that particular government essentially put us where we are today. They completely re-wrote the renewable energies law FOUR times over their four year reign (2009, 2011  & 2012).

You see, up until 2011, solar power was subsidized in Germany. The technology boomed, everbody and their mother had gotten solar panels on their roof. By 2009 solar power alone provided an extreme excess of electricity in Germany, causing lower overall prices for electricity on the market. This of of course had the non-renewable energy lobby fuming, they made less money from selling their coal and nuclear power. They heavily lobbied for the renewable energy companies to get taken down a notch, which the conservatives and neo-libs ofc loved because:

1. A lot of powerful conservatives and neo-libs owned stocks in non-renewable energy conglomerates
2. A lot of powerful cons and neo-libs were sitting on the boards of these conglomerates
3. A lot of powerful cons and neo-libs were CEOs of these conglomerates

So in 2011, the government decided to cut solar power subsidies by 15% by Jan 1, 2012, with each futher month cutting away another 1% of subsidies until there were no subsidies further left. This made the renewable energy market CRASH in Germany, the over 350 registered business relating to solar power in Germany in 2011 shrunk to less than 24 in 2018, which cost over 100,000 people their job. These cut subsidies were used to subsidize the non renewable energy sector, mainly the erection of new coal mines and coal power plants. The government also (artificially) reduced the prices of feed-in tarifs (aka: the price the government pays to its citizens to buy the solar power they produce with the solar panels on their roofs) Because of these factors it became so unprofitable (and in some cases even a net loss) to have solar panels on your roof, that citizens willingly tore them down again. Of course... the majority of the people still have them up, because removing them is expensive, but these measures have stifled their expansion, for the sake of expanding coal & gas energy instead. 

Thats insightful history

 

But even so, now that that already occured in those years, its still irresponsible to get rid of nuclear before the grid can reasonably handle it. The fact that "it could have handled it if this or that" i dont find is relevant anymore in the argument. U have to make decisions based on current reality regardless of past mistakes. If u make a bad decision because it could of worked out if someone else didnt make this or that mistake, its still a new mistake ur making

 

And they subsidized coal? Thats messed up

 

Did the 100,000 jobs lost in green energy disapear only when subsities were given to nuclear and coal in their place or did they die witb the removal of sibsities alone

[PartySick 172,545]

On 12/25/2021 at 4:03 PM, NATAH said:

how is there a gas shortage? just fart or somethin smh

You've solved the energy crisis

[nATAH 57,043]

43 minutes ago, PartySick said:

You've solved the energy crisis

hehe! *toots*

[Supersonic 49,376]

56 minutes ago, Economy said:

Thats insightful history

 

But even so, now that that already occured in those years, its still irresponsible to get rid of nuclear before the grid can reasonably handle it. The fact that "it could have handled it if this or that" i dont find is relevant anymore in the argument. U have to make decisions based on current reality regardless of past mistakes. If u make a bad decision because it could of worked out if someone else didnt make this or that mistake, its still a new mistake ur making

 

And they subsidized coal? Thats messed up

 

Did the 100,000 jobs lost in green energy disapear only when subsities were given to nuclear and coal in their place or did they die witb the removal of sibsities alone

I mean, the argument you quoted me on is that you wouldn't make this out to be the fault of conservatives or neo-liberals. I agree that it isn't relevant to the situation anymore, but it's still pretty much their fault entirely and I, as a German citizen directly affected by the mismanagment, feel entitled to sh*t on them until my **** is empty because this gross mismanagement of resources and utter lack of care for the up and coming generations. 

The jobs getting drained out of green energy (solar power mainly) were mainly lost because of the government artificially reducing feed-in tarifs. The subsidies would have been cut in the long term either way, but people expected it to be when the technology would be accessible, well-researched and cheap, and not even 7 years after building the panels was subsidized.

For mid-sized companies that wanted to invest in solar panels for their buildings, that was a fatal and super discouraging sign from politics. If the feed-in tarifs are bad and the solar panels are expensive to get & install, no company wants to have them on their roofs, it would just be green virtue signalling without any actual monetary benefit. 

The silver living is that the current government is gonna reverse these policies and focus on off-shore wind turbines that will produces a sh*tton of electricty, but the transitional period and the dependancy on Russia in times where the country is an aggressor and threat to the European mainland sucks ass  

[Economy 52,861]

30 minutes ago, Supersonic said:

I mean, the argument you quoted me on is that you wouldn't make this out to be the fault of conservatives or neo-liberals. I agree that it isn't relevant to the situation anymore, but it's still pretty much their fault entirely and I, as a German citizen directly affected by the mismanagment, feel entitled to sh*t on them until my **** is empty because this gross mismanagement of resources and utter lack of care for the up and coming generations. 

The jobs getting drained out of green energy (solar power mainly) were mainly lost because of the government artificially reducing feed-in tarifs. The subsidies would have been cut in the long term either way, but people expected it to be when the technology would be accessible, well-researched and cheap, and not even 7 years after building the panels was subsidized.

For mid-sized companies that wanted to invest in solar panels for their buildings, that was a fatal and super discouraging sign from politics. If the feed-in tarifs are bad and the solar panels are expensive to get & install, no company wants to have them on their roofs, it would just be green virtue signalling without any actual monetary benefit. 

The silver living is that the current government is gonna reverse these policies and focus on off-shore wind turbines that will produces a sh*tton of electricty, but the transitional period and the dependancy on Russia in times where the country is an aggressor and threat to the European mainland sucks ass  

I mean, they had different electrical plans and switching back and fourth makes the current situation both their faults.

 

Yeah the conservatives botched the original green plans. But since that DID occur, reacting the way they did to go back the original plan at a pace it wasnt ready for is therefore a decisiom they share blame for also

 

Governments go in and out of power constantly and things get undone all the time and set back. U cant ignore those changes when u take power back in government by making policy pertending it didnt happen and then be blame free

 

Thats why i meant its not just right or left.

 

For the record i agree with u if how disgusting it is what they did but regardless its what happened.

 

Any legislation looking forward has to take into account where things are when u take office not just where they were when u left office. If failure to do that creates problems then u share blame in the new problems still the way i see it

 

No government is in power all the time which means policy can not be made under an idealistic scenario where u are uninterrupted. Every Government Left, Centre or Right has to factor that in

 

It doesnt look like the left did and thats why im saying their not blame free

 

Plus the debate here was blame from energy security and impact from natural gas shortage not how green the grid was.

 

The conservatives grid may have been environmentally poor (and for the record i disaprove too) but for the relevancy of the argument on security its not relevant. It would have been more secure if kept the way it was (both originally but then the way they changed it to also) and the way the changes were forced back caused vulnerability

 

So either side shares blame in terms of energy security which was the orginal point setting aside how clean or not clean it is environmentally speaking