Kim Kardashian responds to criticism of blackfishing

[Fanta 5,019]

2 minutes ago, moonsago said:

Period. Imagine ganging up and bullying on someone for simply enjoying a hairstyle or liking to tan or wearing a certain outfit... And then these same people preach mental health and a better world. The hypocrisy is REAL. 

Ma'am you really need to stop, like seriously. If I were you I'd revise and delete that tone deaf dissertation for the audacity of you even attempting to explain why black people are not allowed to be offended or call out someone appropriating their culture. And FYI, people can support and be vocal to more than one cause in the world. For you to assume that a black person calling out Kim K is the limit of their outspokenness about problems and issues in this world is extremely ignorant and disrespectful. For you to reduce it to hair and clothes is even worse when the topic of skin color was brought up.

I'm not trying to attack you in any way (and I say this because I've seen how these discussions go), but your post is an absolute atrocity and an unfair attack at anyone who actually has the right to be offended and call out celebrities like Kim K. The other issues you brought up are extremely valid, but no issue is less valid at the expense of another. 

[HuffsAhoy 7,433]

Imagine thinking a hair braid is racist or cultural appropriation  The wokesters are truly ruining the world one fake offense at a time. 

[moonsago 7,285]

5 minutes ago, Fanta said:

 

Your post is extremely problematic, but I'll play devil's advocate and just assume you're ill-informed on this serious and important topic. I attached my recent post to give you some clarity and insight as to why the black community, specifically black women, takes issue with celebrities like Kim K exploiting beauty trends they started.

I was going to write a reply to your other post so I am glad you did first so I can respond, thank you. 

 I understand the part of Kim not admitting that she enjoys black culture, which can be a valid point, but what’s really interesting to me is what you said in the beginning. Black people being discriminated for these features and their culture in general while white people or other races that enjoy doing these certain things are not. Don’t you think that the negative energy you express is being directed at the wrong people though? It’s not the people that engage in these trends as you called them the ones hurting your culture, it’s the other people, the ones that had a problem with it from the get go that you should be upset and fight against. How is stopping people that enjoy doing something helping you out? The problem is still there because the racist people are still there! The problem the black community faces is real, no denying but there needs to be multiple point of views when having this conversation because things are not as black and white. I could also bring the argument that the hour glass figure has been one of the most adored silhouettes throughout history and if you google search it you will see white women emulating it through fashion, completely unrelated to to this notion of wanting to be black. Tanning has been a thing for decades and had nothing to do with wanting to be black, same with lip injections and other plastic surgery. To limit this conversation and say that everybody who does these things wants to appear as another race is ignorant to me and only looks at the problem from one point of view. As for my post above, what is ill informed about it? THIS WHOLE WORLD is made of appropriation... everybody took something to make something else. Period. And to limit it to clothes and fashion is called cherrypicking because it only adresses the parts that some want to be offended about while still enjoying other people’s cultures through different ways. What is the lie here? Thank you.  

[shelby loved 381]

She is queen of deflecting by answering a question in a specific way and ignoring other things

[Fanta 5,019]

1 minute ago, moonsago said:

I was going to write a reply to your other post so I am glad you did first so I can respond, thank you. 

 I understand the part of Kim not admitting that she enjoys black culture, which can be a valid point, but what’s really interesting to me is what you said in the beginning. Black people being discriminated for these features and their culture in general while white people or other races that enjoy doing these certain things are not. Don’t you think that the negative energy you express is being directed at the wrong people though? It’s not the people that engage in these trends as you called them the ones hurting your culture, it’s the other people, the ones that had a problem with it from the get go that you should be upset and fight against. How is stopping people that enjoy doing something helping you out? The problem is still there because the racist people are still there! The problem the black community faces is real, no denying but there needs to be multiple point of views when having this conversation because things are not as black and white. I could also bring the argument that the hour glass figure has been one of the most adored silhouettes throughout history and if you google search it you will see white women emulating it through fashion, completely unrelated to to this notion of wanting to be black. Tanning has been a thing for decades and had nothing to do with wanting to be black, same with lip injections and other plastic surgery. To limit this conversation and say that everybody who does these things wants to appear as another race is ignorant to me and only looks at the problem from one point of view. As for my post above, what is ill informed about it? THIS WHOLE WORLD is made of appropriation... everybody took something to make something else. Period. And to limit it to clothes and fashion is called cherrypicking because it only adresses the parts that some want to be offended about while still enjoying other people’s cultures through different ways. What is the lie here? Thank you.  

The people following the trends are ignorant and complicit when they are aware of how offensive it can be to the community they're mimicking. As for the people that had a problem with it, they're mostly all dead. Besides for racists and trolls, it's very clear being 'ethnic' and 'racially ambiguous' is the new it thing/or desirable. Some white people don't mind and are happy just the way they are, many who follow trends are hopping on board, and the person actually conducting the train is a celebrity like Kim K who ushered in the trend of non-black women appropriating/mimicking black beauty standards.

Tanning has been a thing forever, but tanning mixed with braids/baby hairs/lip injections is another story. The hourglass figure has always been desirable, but a large ass and thick hips have not (and they have nothing to do with an hourglass figure). I understand your points but they can simply be shot down, easily, because this topic has been discussed forever and honestly it's not that hard to do the right thing. What makes it fester and become worse is when the person in question, in this case Kim, chooses to dance around the subject without being sincere. I stand by what I said, so try reading the link I posted on the previous page for better insight into the topic.

[Teletubby 149,857]

3 minutes ago, 666 said:

She is queen of deflecting by answering a question in a specific way and ignoring other things

she probably didn't answer these questions and her PR team wrote this ...

[Chlorine 47,976]

2 hours ago, xlx said:

Not her using North as her shield 

This is Kim’s revenge 

 

[moonsago 7,285]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

The people following the trends are ignorant and complicit when they are aware of how offensive it can be to the community they're mimicking. As for the people that had a problem with it, they're mostly all dead. Besides for racists and trolls, it's very clear being 'ethnic' and 'racially ambiguous' is the new it thing/or desirable. Some white people don't mind and are happy just the way they are, many who follow trends are hopping on board, and the person actually conducting the train is a celebrity like Kim K who ushered in the trend of non-black women appropriating/mimicking black beauty standards.

Tanning has been a thing forever, but tanning mixed with braids/baby hairs/lip injections is another story. The hourglass figure has always been desirable, but a large ass and thick hips have not (and they have nothing to do with an hourglass figure). I understand your points but they can simply be shot down, easily, because this topic has been discussed forever and honestly it's not that hard to do the right thing. What makes it fester and become worse is when the person in question, in this case Kim, chooses to dance around the subject without being sincere. I stand by what I said, so try reading the link I posted on the previous page for better insight into the topic.

I am sorry for not being more detailed but by hour glass figure in fashion I mean extreme forms of it, including ones that emulate a big ass too, I study fashion and I know it’s history. I don’t think there isn’t truth to what you are saying but at the same time what I am trying to argue is the fact that multiple things can be true at the same time so I don’t think my points can be easily shut down because the conversation is nuanced. Not everybody that wants to have a tan is trying to appear black or even the ones that adopt some variations of these multiple things at once does it in a harmful way to the black community. And again, if they truly enjoy it, what’s the problem? Again, the anger is directed at the wrong people. That complicit argument you brought is very problematic, so now we tell people to not enjoy things cause OTHER people are the ones discriminating? How can you not see that there is a problem there? And especially if you say that those people are dead now, then why do we still address the problem of the past if those people are not around anymore? Why can’t we let everybody enjoy whatever they want to enjoy and simply teach respect and love for one another? Why does wanting to wear braids HAVE to make me against the black community? Also, why are we stereotyping people? Not all white people are milk white and not all black people have the body you describe. There are white people with afros, and thick lips and big bums too and black people with slender bodies and thin lips. To generalize it like this again defeats the nuanced conversation point of view. Thank you. 

[Fanta 5,019]

17 minutes ago, moonsago said:

I am sorry for not being more detailed but by hour glass figure in fashion I mean extreme forms of it, including ones that emulate a big ass too, I study fashion and I know it’s history. I don’t think there isn’t truth to what you are saying but at the same time what I am trying to argue is the fact that multiple things can be true at the same time so I don’t think my points can be easily shut down because the conversation is nuanced. Not everybody that wants to have a tan is trying to appear black or even the ones that adopt some variations of these multiple things at once does it in a harmful way to the black community. And again, if they truly enjoy it, what’s the problem? Again, the anger is directed at the wrong people. That complicit argument you brought is very problematic, so now we tell people to not enjoy things cause OTHER people are the ones discriminating? How can you not see that there is a problem there? And especially if you say that those people are dead now, then why do we still address the problem of the past if those people are not around anymore? Why can’t we let everybody enjoy whatever they want to enjoy and simply teach respect and love for one another? Why does wanting to wear braids HAVE to make me against the black community? Also, why are we stereotyping people? Not all white people are milk white and not all black people have the body you describe. There are white people with afros, and thick lips and big bums too and black people with slender bodies and thin lips. To generalize it like this again defeats the nuanced conversation point of view. Thank you. 

This isn't a finger pointing game, reread your extremely problematic rant on the first page to understand why I responded to you with numerous examples. Again, none of what you have said refutes any of the facts stated by actual black people (online and IRL) speaking of their experiences and feelings regarding issues that either affect or involve them (as individuals and as a community).

Culture appropriation does not mean you are against the black community or hate them, that is your interpretation. Regarding stereotypes, that was exactly my point. Black women are stereotyped for thighs and ass, fetishized for them (lips too) and ironically mocked all in one. That was the entire point. With that being said you are either A). Purposely pretending to misunderstand and misconstrue my points or B). Genuinely that clueless (no offense) which is an entire other issue not for this thread. To make it simple and clear, you do not have the right to tell black people what they can and cannot be offended by when it comes to their culture. Unless you are being an ally and supporting their voices, your opinion is practically invalid because what it boils down to is that you're mad they're offended and want them to focus on other issues instead. You'd do better to let go of your misplaced stubborn views on culture appropriation and embrace the fact that there is room for every single voice and issue. Policing people for voicing concerns is not the way to go.

[moonsago 7,285]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

This isn't a finger pointing game, reread your extremely problematic rant on the first page to understand why I responded to you with numerous examples. Again, none of what you have said refutes any of the facts stated by actual black people (online and IRL) speaking of their experiences and feelings regarding issues that either affect or involve them (as individuals and as a community).

Culture appropriation does not mean you are against the black community or hate them, that is your interpretation. Regarding stereotypes, that was exactly my point. Black women are stereotypes for thighs and ass, fetishized for them (lips too) and ironically mocked all in one. That was the entire point. With that being said you are either A). Purposely pretending to misunderstand and misconstrue my points or B). Genuinely that clueless (no offense) which is an entire other issue not for this thread. To make it simple and clear, you do not have the right to tell black people what they can and cannot be offended by when it comes to their culture. Unless you are being an ally and supporting their voices, your opinion is practically invalid because what it boils down to is that you're mad they're offended and want them to focus on other issues instead. You'd do better to let go of your misplaced stubborn views on culture appropriation and embrace the fact that there is room for every single voice and issue. Policing people for voicing concerns is not the way to go.

I am trying to make room for multiple points of views. You contradict yourself, in one comment you point out how all the people that have a problem with are now all dead and in another you talk about still being mocked and ridiculed. What is it then because this is where the misunderstanding happens. Not to mention that again, as I previously stated, you guys mix race with country when you talk about culture, I am not exactly sure which of my point of views you are against as you say some are valid and then say none are. I am not telling black people to not be offended, I am simply trying to make room for a conversation in which not everybody that wants to engage in doing something should be labeled as an appropriator or problematic person. I stand with the black community and always have, but I don’t understand why people can’t GENUINELY be allowed to enjoy things. This defeats the purpose of a loving accepting world of which I believe in and stand for, one in which everybody should be allowed to engage into doing whatever they want as long as they don’t harm anybody. To me this looks like anger misplaced on the wrong people. Kim is not the problem in my point of view, the people hating on black women being the way they naturally are, are the real problem and should be the ones people go for, making some of your points invalid. 

[phantasmas 10,586]

"Honestly, a lot of the time it comes from my daughter asking us to do matching hair."

"...but then there’s also a history of braiding hair in Armenia, and people forget that I am Armenian as well."

 

Ok then show your kids about their Armenian culture as well... no one would have a problem with you and your kids rocking Armenia braids 

[Fanta 5,019]

3 minutes ago, moonsago said:

I am trying to make room for multiple points of views. You contradict yourself, in one comment you point out how all the people that have a problem with are now all dead and in another you talk about still being mocked and ridiculed. What is it then because this is where the misunderstanding happens. Not to mention that again, as I previously stated, you guys mix race with country when you talk about culture, I am not exactly sure which of my point of views you are against as you say some are valid and then say none are. I am not telling black people to not be offended, I am simply trying to make room for a conversation in which not everybody that wants to engage in doing something should be labeled as an appropriator or problematic person. I stand with the black community and always have, but I don’t understand why people can’t GENUINELY be allowed to enjoy things. This defeats the purpose of a loving accepting world of which I believe in and stand for, one in which everybody should be allowed to engage into doing whatever they want as long as they don’t harm anybody. To me this looks like anger misplaced on the wrong people. Kim is not the problem in my point of view, the people hating on black women being the way they naturally are, are the real problem and should be the ones people go for, making some of your points invalid. 

Yes, black women up until recently were mocked and deemed ratchet and unprofessional for how they traditionally present themselves. I made this point in my first response. The points I agreed with were you saying there are other big issues in the world happening, and I agree that they need to be discussed too. I disagreed with everything else, stating that we can discuss both humanitarian and global issues as well as a community's problems with a celebrity indirectly encouraging appropriation.

A utopia where we can all live in peace and harmony sounds like a dream, I agree, but we are far from it. For now the kindest and most understanding/respectful thing to do is respect people's boundaries. I don't think instathots' lives will fall apart if they're told not to overly tan while sporting African braids and wearing African prints. 

[moonsago 7,285]

1 minute ago, Fanta said:

Yes, black women up until recently were mocked and deemed ratchet and unprofessional for how they traditionally present themselves. I made this point in my first response. The points I agreed with were you saying there are other big issues in the world happening, and I agree that they need to be discussed too. I disagreed with everything else, stating that we can discuss both humanitarian and global issues as well as a community's problems with a celebrity indirectly encouraging appropriation.

A utopia where we can all live in peace and harmony sounds like a dream, I agree, but we are far from it. For now the kindest and most understanding/respectful thing to do is respect people's boundaries. I don't think instathots' lives will fall apart if they're told not to overly tan while sporting African braids and wearing African prints. 

But this is what I do not understand, black people also engage in white culture, hair and clothing. Isn’t it hypocritical to ask other white people not to do so when they do it to? I understand the context up to recently was different, but again, as you said, up to recently. Why do we discuss it as it being still a problem then if the general opinion has changed? If black women are now praised for their appearance then why do we bring back the past? Isn’t the whole purpose of the BLM movement to move away from the past and receive the proper treatment a human being should? Aren’t black women from this point of view considered the new standard of beauty in today’s time? WHATS WRONG WITH THAT? I find it beautiful. I believe there is much truth to some of the things you say but at the same time you don’t really discuss some of the answers I provided you with, like how everything if you think about it LOGICALLY is appropriation ( to use this term ), everything is inspired by something else. Go down the line of history and you’ll see just that. If everybody is to take back their own things, we wouldn’t have MUCH at all to work with between us ( in our own race/country/community ). Why don’t you touch on that also? Things don’t happen in a vacuum. You take things from the past and present to make the future. You engage in other people’s culture EVERY SINGLE DAY, and probably don’t even know. So why don’t we admit to that? Because then we are forced to see that we cherrypick what we call cultural appropriation today. Thank you.

[nATAH 49,689]

1 hour ago, moonsago said:

Period. Imagine ganging up and bullying on someone for simply enjoying a hairstyle or liking to tan or wearing a certain outfit... And then these same people preach mental health and a better world. The hypocrisy is REAL. 

girl-

[moonsago 7,285]

Just now, NATAH said:

girl-

The wording was off and harsh but I still stand behind the idea that not everybody should be portrayed as problematic and an appropriator for genuinely enjoying something as this entire world is made out of what we call today appropriation. Go down the history line and you will see just that. If we are all to take back what each of our races/countries made, we would be at a disadvantage, to say the least, deprived of the most essential things. And yes, some of you do bully these people. You can make a point and not call them names and mock them. Thank you.