"The Grotesque Is No Longer Shocking In Pop" - Thoughts?

[enissa11 2,984]

1 minute ago, Frank Potion said:

Uhh, no, we don't. Because nothing about the performance good or bad takes away from the fact it is groundbreaking for the reason I already stated. Your not liking the performance from an artistic perspective is completely irrelevant. 

it's not me saying that i didn't like the performance from an artistic perspective, it's me saying that the kiss felt extremely staged and the egyptian aesthetic has been done before a lot, and that's because he's not a great performer imo.

[SKANK 14,288]

51 minutes ago, enissa11 said:

lmao so dramatic, why the 2009 vmas performance wouldn't survive??? its magestic would be intact, if anything it would be more well received, the same thing with the meat dress, i think in this day and age it would still be pretty shocking and it still be very thought provoking and less deemed as an attention stunt for the gp.

 

Michael Jackson died shortly before the 2009 VMAs. The show opened with Janet performing a tribute to her brother, and Madonna giving the eulogy. At the time, we were collectively mourning the death of an icon, and having serious conversations about what a destructive force fame can be.

Then a pop star entered the stage, singing "I pray the fame wont take my life," performing a pop song about the obsessive nature of fame, ending the performance with her lifeless body hanging bloody over the stage.

The context of Michael Jackson's death made Gaga's performance powerful and poignant, but if she did something like that now, she would be called insensitive.

If she used wheel chairs and braces as props today she would be criticized. If she hanged herself at the end of a performance today she would be criticized.

The VMA performance is iconic and incredible, but we also have to appreciate it for what it was at the time, and recognize it's not something she could ever re-create in our current social climate.

For better or worse the 2009 VMA performance couldn't happen in 2021.

[Chlorine 47,976]

4 minutes ago, enissa11 said:

it's not me saying that i didn't like the performance from an artistic perspective, it's me saying that the kiss felt extremely staged and the egyptian aesthetic has been done before a lot, and that's because he's not a great performer imo.

Ok and? 

[enissa11 2,984]

8 minutes ago, SKANK said:

 

Michael Jackson died shortly before the 2009 VMAs. The show opened with Janet performing a tribute to her brother, and Madonna giving the eulogy. At the time, we were collectively mourning the death of an icon, and having serious conversations about what a destructive force fame can be.

Then a pop star entered the stage, singing "I pray the fame wont take my life," performing a pop song about the obsessive nature of fame, ending the performance with her lifeless body hanging bloody over the stage.

The context of Michael Jackson's death made Gaga's performance powerful and poignant, but if she did something like that now, she would be called insensitive.

If she used wheel chairs and braces as props today she would be criticized. If she hanged herself at the end of a performance today she would be criticized.

The VMA performance is iconic and incredible, but we also have to appreciate it for what it was at the time, and recognize it's not something she could ever re-create in our current social climate.

For better or worse the 2009 VMA performance couldn't happen in 2021.

People already criticize her at the time, ppl called her insensitive and that she was just relying in shock value, the thing is that she never was apologetic about anything she did because she knew the artistic statements she was making and what was the messaging, because of it we perceived now that she got away with everything lightly, she spread a lot of conversation about the things you point out, and ppl still use wheel chairs and braces as "props" in theater and movies a lot and they're not cancelled.
I don't mean it in a way that she'll recreate it today, she already did it and she'll not try to recreate anything, i mean in a figurative if gaga was emerging today

[Enigma 7,182]

I don’t think anything can shock us as in non-braindead people (aka who aren’t shocked by gayness, religious imagery or whatever inoffensive stuff people find shocking to this day). There’s still a lot of shocking to do with the GP, but pretty much no one has the guts to go there or the talent to make the GP like them despite that.

I do think there are avenues that never went big in pop yet tho. Hyper pop is a new thing and it really is the only groundbreaking thing right now. 

Also the definition of shock here is very tame. This stuff is only shocking to prudes.

I will say that Miley’s dead petz shocked me and grossed me out back in the day (the doo it vid) but now I fully love this stuff. So that’s one example in recent memory of me being shocked by pop despite being very open 

(I’m opening another tangent here but in terms of pure fashion/aesthetics a good example of something shocking currently is the duo @matieresfecales. I feel like that’s true weirdness opposed to most of what pop girls try to do to innovate)

[HausOfAntonio 8,021]

2 hours ago, Mindblown said:

Our society is also completely different from when GAGA stepped on the world stage. We now live in constant cancel culture and everything is hyper political. Theres no way the 2009 VMA performance would survive in our current social climate. Reintroducing shock culture to the point that it's actually shocking for us now would need to cross lines and I feel thats very tricky without getting cancelled and maintaining GAGAs artistic standards. If you do something too shocking it could be tacky and you get thrown to the dogs. 

What would’ve been cancelled about the VMA performance though? Its not like she was being racist/homophobic/sexist or whatever. It was done with an artistry and integrity that circumvents cancelling, imo. 
 

EDIT: nvm just read your other reply 

[YaaaasGaga 6,119]

3 hours ago, Mindblown said:

Our society is also completely different from when GAGA stepped on the world stage. We now live in constant cancel culture and everything is hyper political. Theres no way the 2009 VMA performance would survive in our current social climate. Reintroducing shock culture to the point that it's actually shocking for us now would need to cross lines and I feel thats very tricky without getting cancelled and maintaining GAGAs artistic standards. If you do something too shocking it could be tacky and you get thrown to the dogs. 

This is what I sort of thought. I think artists censor themselves so much more now and play everything so much safer as trying to shock people can either have a really big successful effect if done right on their careers, but if it doesn't have the expected outcome it can literally kill your career overnight.

[PartySick 159,836]

4 hours ago, YaaaasGaga said:

It credits Gaga for bringing it into the mainstream following on from Michael Jackson

My faves constantly defining what it means to be a pop star

[PartySick 159,836]

2 hours ago, SKANK said:

 

Michael Jackson died shortly before the 2009 VMAs. The show opened with Janet performing a tribute to her brother, and Madonna giving the eulogy. At the time, we were collectively mourning the death of an icon, and having serious conversations about what a destructive force fame can be.

Then a pop star entered the stage, singing "I pray the fame wont take my life," performing a pop song about the obsessive nature of fame, ending the performance with her lifeless body hanging bloody over the stage.

The context of Michael Jackson's death made Gaga's performance powerful and poignant, but if she did something like that now, she would be called insensitive.

If she used wheel chairs and braces as props today she would be criticized. If she hanged herself at the end of a performance today she would be criticized.

The VMA performance is iconic and incredible, but we also have to appreciate it for what it was at the time, and recognize it's not something she could ever re-create in our current social climate.

For better or worse the 2009 VMA performance couldn't happen in 2021.

Can't believe I've never thought about it like this

[TheDemonIClingTo 1,018]

4 hours ago, Lucas said:

I think we want her to go back to dark themes because that's what she does the best.
 

Amen. I'd dare to say this was what made most of us fans in the first place

[YaaaasGaga 6,119]

3 hours ago, SKANK said:

 

Michael Jackson died shortly before the 2009 VMAs. The show opened with Janet performing a tribute to her brother, and Madonna giving the eulogy. At the time, we were collectively mourning the death of an icon, and having serious conversations about what a destructive force fame can be.

Then a pop star entered the stage, singing "I pray the fame wont take my life," performing a pop song about the obsessive nature of fame, ending the performance with her lifeless body hanging bloody over the stage.

The context of Michael Jackson's death made Gaga's performance powerful and poignant, but if she did something like that now, she would be called insensitive.

If she used wheel chairs and braces as props today she would be criticized. If she hanged herself at the end of a performance today she would be criticized.

The VMA performance is iconic and incredible, but we also have to appreciate it for what it was at the time, and recognize it's not something she could ever re-create in our current social climate.

For better or worse the 2009 VMA performance couldn't happen in 2021.

I completely didn't think about the wider context of that performance amongst everything else that was going on... wow, the impact!

[StrawberryBlond 14,821]

I think a lot of this maximalism in music was connected to artists who were perceived as not being good singers and that this OTT nature of their work was a way to cover up the fact that they had no talent. It was an unfair judgement to be sure, but it was a thing. That's how Adele got so popular in the midst of EDM. After a while, the public got tired of attempts to shock and wanted the exact opposite, they wanted "realness." ToddInTheShadows talked about this, saying the public suffered "shock fatigue" because "after a while, the world runs out of monocles to pop." Nostalgia Critic also pointed out that a lot of shocking cultural moments that happened which we thought were world-ending at the time were something we ended up just moving past and that some of these celebrities aren't even popular anymore. Shock culture comes around and then dies down again. It has to be done when it's culturally relevant. I think Gaga knows that the public don't want 2010 edgy Gaga and that it would be detrimental to go back to that for the moment at least.

[RAMROD 109,332]

Gaga and her SXSW Swine performance trained us well not too be squeamish anymore

[Sepsami 18,831]

5 hours ago, HuffsAhoy said:

I kind of agree with this take. I feel like pop has been rather stale the last few years and there's been nothing truly groundbreaking. I hope the post-pandemic world ushers in a new era for pop themes, as Gaga said during one her acceptance speeches at the 2020 VMA's there will be a new artistic Renaissance. 

It would probably be seen as ableist because of the wheelchair or smth 

[Debithius 5,838]

5 hours ago, enissa11 said:

lmao so dramatic, why the 2009 vmas performance wouldn't survive??? its magestic would be intact, if anything it would be more well received, the same thing with the meat dress, i think in this day and age it would still be pretty shocking and it still be very thought provoking and less deemed as an attention stunt for the gp.

They would accuse her of glorifying suicide and all th animal activists would drag her harder than they did in 2010.