Israel and Palestine conflict explained

[Bambino 24,325]

2 minutes ago, Lona Delery said:

yea i doubt 2 tweets are sufficient to explain the highly complex situation in israel.

but before anyone comes for me, what the right-wring israeli government is doing is obviously wrong and horrible so dont @ me 

Nobody should come for you when free access to information is just one click away, if you're interested, of course.

[joannester 1,270]

1 hour ago, Bambino said:

But it's not actually a matter of angels so your use of that meme isn't right here. Muslims, Jews and Christians used to live peacefully in Palestine, and even under the British mandate, that before one side decided to take over and eliminate the other side, which is still happening to this day. We're talking ethnic cleansing here, literally.

Can you explain me how did Israel try to take over and eliminate the other when Israel accepted every single partition plan, even the crappiest UN ones with Jerusalem deep inside of Palestine? When today Palestinian independence is something all Israelis have comes to terms with, and generally believe it's a question of defining border? To this day I don't know any Israeli who denies the Palestinian identity, culture or right to self determination.  that is despite modern day Palestinians being the result of  Arab invasions in a land culturally and ethnically cleansed of Hebrew culture by force. Jerusalem people in Israel are thought of as being completely nuts for saying the things they say.  Meanwhile  the standard opinion in Palestine is they must leave at any cost and  terror is at best turn a blind eye on.

'Even under the British mandate' as if the British were inherently more likely to make a mess than the ottomans, ask the Armenians, Greeks and or Serbians about the wonders of peaceful coexistence under the ottomans . always blaming everything on the west, as usual.

 

[Bambino 24,325]

3 minutes ago, joannester said:

Can you explain me how did Israel try to take over and eliminate the other when Israel accepted every single partition plan, even the crappiest UN ones with Jerusalem deep inside of Palestine? When today Palestinian independence is something all Israelis have comes to terms with, and generally believe it's a question of defining border? To this day I don't know any Israeli who denies the Palestinian identity, culture or right to self determination.  that is despite modern day Palestinians being the result of  Arab invasions in a land culturally and ethnically cleansed of Hebrew culture by force. Jerusalem people in Israel are thought of as being completely nuts for saying the things they say.  Meanwhile  the standard opinion in Palestine is they must leave at any cost and  terror is at best turn a blind eye on.

'Even under the British mandate' as if the British were inherently more likely to make a mess than the ottomans, ask the Armenians, Greeks and or Serbians about the wonders of peaceful coexistence under the ottomans . always blaming everything on the west, as usual.

If Jerusalem is deep inside of Palestine like you said, explain to me why Palestinians in East Jerusalem are now facing forced eviction in favor of Israeli settlers and organization. Explain to me why Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza can't go to Jerusalem unless they obtain a special, hard to get permit. Explain to me why the Israeli government fought very hard to get every country of the world to recognize Jerusalem as its capital, completely throwing decades of negotiations with the Palestinians off the table,ignoring their calls to get East Jerusalem as a capital. Explain to me why the Israeli government pushed too hard for every embassy to be moved to Jerusalem in a step to officially recognize it as its capital. Many examples can be given and argued and that's only in Jerusalem.

Now take a ride in the West Bank, occupied since 1967, and look at the daily violations happening against Palestinians. The settlements. The checkpoint. The land grab and many others.

Don't say that Palestinian identity isn't denied. Everything Israel is doing nowadays is heading towards a one-state solution with Palestinians trapped in an apartheid regime.

[joannester 1,270]

1 minute ago, Bambino said:

If Jerusalem is deep inside of Palestine like you said, explain to me why Palestinians in East Jerusalem are now facing forced eviction in favor of Israeli settlers and organization. Explain to me why Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza can't go to Jerusalem unless they obtain a special, hard to get permit. Explain to me why the Israeli government fought very hard to get every country of the world to recognize Jerusalem as its capital, completely throwing decades of negotiations with the Palestinians off the table,ignoring their calls to get East Jerusalem as a capital. Explain to me why the Israeli government pushed too hard for every embassy to be moved to Jerusalem in a step to officially recognize it as its capital. Many examples can be given and argued and that's only in Jerusalem.

Now take a ride in the West Bank, occupied since 1967, and look at the daily violations happening against Palestinians. The settlements. The checkpoint. The land grab and many others.

Don't say that Palestinian identity isn't denied. Everything Israel is doing nowadays is heading towards a one-state solution with Palestinians trapped in an apartheid regime.

First of please search 1947 UN partition plan and you will see what I was referring to. Israel accepted it and it should be noted the south is practically useless so the partition is quite in favour of the arabs, unlike what  as those maps with the percentages suggests. And Jerusalem is shared, which is fair and in my opinion the only solution. also noting that between 1972 and 1991 there was freedom of movement between Israel West Bank and Gaza for everyone, which ended in the first intifada and years of terror. You could be in Jenin and go to the beach in Haifa no questions asked and now because there was abuse of trust they can't even go between Jenin and Nablus without passport . The plan was making two states side by side with separate administrations but not a crazy hard border like with Jordan and Egypt. But that wasn't enough. How did it go when they pulled out of Gaza? Very good I see? what's what they're trying to avoid. And they're trying to avoid a Lebanon-esque mess, a country the world has given up on because it's just that hopeless.  

The settlements are an atrocity and the biggest obstacle to peace, even more than Jerusalem in my opinion. the checkpoints would be justified if it had some purpose but they can't seriously think it's a long term solution, I'm not debating either of those things. Palestinians often complain about the conditions in the occupied territories and make it look like its Israel at large, when in reality are doing fine haifa and Jaffa. more often than not they are vague about this terminology to push the general narrative of indivisible Palestine, places like Netanya 99% jewish included, the level of delusion is Taiwan-level, it's sad at this point.

During peace negotiations it was even proposed Israel keep only the jewish quarter but even that wasn't enough for the arabs. You know why jews step on a glass during weddings? because it symbolises the destruction of the temple and their civilisation at large, and all that remains is a wall and one neighbourhood .. 20% of the old town at most, where there aren't even any Palestinians... are they gonna be happier for owning it? is it gonna improve their lives in any way? and what does Israel even gain from owning the shtholes which are most of the East Jerusalem neighbourhoods? 

 

[Bambino 24,325]

4 minutes ago, joannester said:

First of please search 1947 UN partition plan and you will see what I was referring to. Israel accepted it and it should be noted the south is practically useless so the partition is quite in favour of the arabs, unlike what  as those maps with the percentages suggests. And Jerusalem is shared, which is fair and in my opinion the only solution. also noting that between 1972 and 1991 there was freedom of movement between Israel West Bank and Gaza for everyone, which ended in the first intifada and years of terror. You could be in Jenin and go to the beach in Haifa no questions asked and now because there was abuse of trust they can't even go between Jenin and Nablus without passport . The plan was making two states side by side with separate administrations but not a crazy hard border like with Jordan and Egypt. But that wasn't enough. How did it go when they pulled out of Gaza? Very good I see? what's what they're trying to avoid. And they're trying to avoid a Lebanon-esque mess, a country the world has given up on because it's just that hopeless.  

The settlements are an atrocity and the biggest obstacle to peace, even more than Jerusalem in my opinion. the checkpoints would be justified if it had some purpose but they can't seriously think it's a long term solution, I'm not debating either of those things. Palestinians often complain about the conditions in the occupied territories and make it look like its Israel at large, when in reality are doing fine haifa and Jaffa. more often than not they are vague about this terminology to push the general narrative of indivisible Palestine, places like Netanya 99% jewish included, the level of delusion is Taiwan-level, it's sad at this point.

During peace negotiations it was even proposed Israel keep only the jewish quarter but even that wasn't enough for the arabs. You know why jews step on a glass during weddings? because it symbolises the destruction of the temple and their civilisation at large, and all that remains is a wall and one neighbourhood .. 20% of the old town at most, where there aren't even any Palestinians... are they gonna be happier for owning it? is it gonna improve their lives in any way? and what does Israel even gain from owning the shtholes which are most of the East Jerusalem neighbourhoods?

You didn't answer or explain any of the questions or arguments that I presented

I don't understand how you'd want Arabs to accept the UN plan, which is literally based off displacing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their cities and villages in 1948. Do you think it's okay if someone kicks you out of your entire house, then offers a single room and calls you a peace-hater when you reject that?

Is your last paragraph literally in favor of displacing the 500 Palestinians in Sheikh Jarrah by saying that them being in there won't improve their lives in anyway? And y'all say colonialism and ethnic cleansing is a thing of the past.

[joannester 1,270]

26 minutes ago, Bambino said:

Is your last paragraph literally in favor of displacing the 500 Palestinians in Sheikh Jarrah by saying that them being in there won't improve their lives in anyway? And y'all say colonialism and ethnic cleansing is a thing of the past.

I said the opposite, there has been a misunderstanding. 

My point is that Israel is acting in bad faith by holding onto territories with people that don't want them and they absorbed fully conscious they plan on neglecting them and use the in between space to build fancy jewish houses.. Why does Israel care about all these random neighbourhoods out of all places ? domination and land. 

my comment about them "being happier by owning it" was directly referring to the jewish quarter of the old town and Palestine desperately wanting to own it for no valid reason. I never said any Palestinians had to go anywhere because not only is that would be wrong but also the jewish quarter has no Palestinian residents to begin with. why does Palestine want the jewish quarter of Jerusalem anyways ? They don't, it's pettiness.

Can you really deny that there's a sky high level of toxicity on both sides when one takes over entire worthless neighbourhoods just to make a point and the other claims the literal symbol of the other country's destruction?

[Mr Oak 7,761]

Ummm "Israel is not a country"?

[Regina George 59,387]

2 minutes ago, NoahSuns said:

Ummm "Israel is not a country"?

Everything is perfectly explained. 

[Mr Oak 7,761]

8 minutes ago, Regina George said:

Everything is perfectly explained. 

So, is USA not considered a country too?

[Regina George 59,387]

1 minute ago, NoahSuns said:

So, is USA considered not a country too?

Look.. The main intention behind that is to explain how Israel came to be. It did not start out as a country and Palestinian people and everyone who is sane enough to see what is happening is still not considering it as one. 

[Melech 9,900]

Israel is a country. 

[Bambino 24,325]

1 hour ago, joannester said:

I said the opposite, there has been a misunderstanding. 

My point is that Israel is acting in bad faith by holding onto territories with people that don't want them and they absorbed fully conscious they plan on neglecting them and use the in between space to build fancy jewish houses.. Why does Israel care about all these random neighbourhoods out of all places ? domination and land. 

my comment about them "being happier by owning it" was directly referring to the jewish quarter of the old town and Palestine desperately wanting to own it for no valid reason. I never said any Palestinians had to go anywhere because not only is that would be wrong but also the jewish quarter has no Palestinian residents to begin with. why does Palestine want the jewish quarter of Jerusalem anyways ? They don't, it's pettiness.

Can you really deny that there's a sky high level of toxicity on both sides when one takes over entire worthless neighbourhoods just to make a point and the other claims the literal symbol of the other country's destruction?

You asked why Israel wants these Arab neighborhoods out of all places, well, Israel wants all places actually to begin with. This should just convince even more that Israel is not concerned about the Palestinians. For example, the Palestinian leaders have asked through negotiations that they want East Jerusalem as their capital, and it's internationally agreed upon. All of those neighborhoods are located in the area where Palestinians claim for a capital, and there are Palestinians living in them. But of course, Israel wants the entire land with no questions asked, hence they're getting rid of the Palestinians living in them.

The West Bank, where most Palestinians live and want as territories for an independent state, is torn apart by settlements and checkpoints that keep on expanding every single day. Areas in East Jerusalem is repeatedly violated. And people got nerves to say that Palestinians don't want peace because they're given the very minimum life conditions to begin with? People got nerves to talk about the two-state solution when basically, there's nothing for the Palestinians except a few cities with settlements in them and a torn part of a capital that they can't even go to?

One more thing, I'm not going to accuse you of anything since I don't know your intentions, but idk if you're actually thinking this is a conflict between equal power entities, you're wrong.

[TheResidentZionist 128]

5 hours ago, Regina George said:

This all sounds amazing but you have to understand that your people are literally stealing from, killing and putting out fake narratives against Palestinians (including Christian people along with Muslims) and they’ve been doing this for years now. They are not letting them have basic human rights such as health care and freedom of religion. They are torturing and brutally stealing from people. I understand that you are biased and this is in no way a hate towards Jewish people. Yesterday I saw a video of your people dancing, singing, cheering and calling for GENOCIDE against muslim people of Palestine. Stop with this narrative of “I have muslim friends” because you yourself in thst case don’t respect your friends. You expect your friends to give your people their land and to live by your rules and that’s not what friends do. I won’t be convinced after what I saw yesterday that your people (at least majority) mean good for muslims and other Palestinians. 

So where is all your passion and fire for justice when it comes to the genocide the Chinese government is commiting?  Or perhaps the people in prison camps in North Korea? Your laser focus on Israel is unfair and an example of how the PR machine has influenced you. You decry the "fake news" yet you are myopic to  any understanding of history. 

The Jewish people were literally slaughtered and ostracized for almost all of human history. Most recently the Holocaust. The creation of Israel was because CLEARLY history has shown they are not welcome anywhere. 

So hypothetically let's say that the Jews of Israel leave and Palestine regains the entire territory. Where will they go? 

Look up the rising rates of anti semitism in the USA and the EU. Clearly they can't go there. Remember the shooting in the synogoge in Pittsburgh? How about the family who was brutally attacked with a knife in their own home on Hannukah in New York, or the Jewish deli that was attacked earlier. Where will they go? 

You act like your filled with righteousness by siding with the Palestinians against Israel. But you seem to forget that these people are also in pain and attacked for their ethnicity and religious practices. 

Seeing as you care so much about the wellbeing of one side, how about the wellbeing of the other. "Where will the millions of Jews go?" 

 

[alsemanche 97,820]

2 minutes ago, iamlost481516 said:

So where is all your passion and fire for justice when it comes to the genocide the Chinese government is commiting?  Or perhaps the people in prison camps in North Korea? Your laser focus on Israel is unfair and an example of how the PR machine has influenced you. You decry the "fake news" yet you are myopic to  any understanding of history. 

The Jewish people were literally slaughtered and ostracized for almost all of human history. Most recently the Holocaust. The creation of Israel was because CLEARLY history has shown they are not welcome anywhere. 

1. you can care about more than 1 thing in life lmao

2. So they decided to colonize and ethnically cleanse another population to affirm their existence? It's not like the people who suddenly flocked to Palestine were non-existent before. They literally moved there and settled there, displacing endless Palestinians and claiming the land of their own. But yeah sure they are not welcome anywhere and colonization and murder is their only solution how sad. What a f*cked up take lmao. By that logic, black people should be slaughtering people left and right and claiming countries as theirs since they're also discriminated against all over the world, even in their home countries. Now that doesn't make much sense to you anymore does it?  

[alsemanche 97,820]

I love when someone who has no clue about the history or the birth of the Zionist colonial project tells others that they have no knowledge of history. It really is a joke at this point.