Better Day 5,766 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 https://mobile.twitter.com/JimFairlie/status/1383866686416117765 They are rumours Bojo will spring Indyref2 onto the Scottish Parliament. Conditions: 70% of the electorate must agree No more referendums for 50 years All UK wide Scots will be eligible to vote. Not sure how legit this is but this is scary to think Bojo could be planning this. Together You And I! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Day 5,766 Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 @bionic@xoxo Craig @Ivannn What are your thoughts? Together You And I! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 17 hours ago, Miss Dolly said: @bionic@xoxo Craig @Ivannn What are your thoughts? Hypocritical of Boris to change the goalposts now things are looking in favor of independence but some of these conditions should have been in place for all referendums I always support turnout threshold requirements because otherwise it excludes eligible voters who don’t vote (and thus assume are happy with the status quo) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Day 5,766 Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 Just now, bionic said: Hypocritical of Boris to change the goalposts now things are looking in favor of independence but some of these conditions should have been in place for all referendums I agree with the last condition but the other two is extremely undemocratic tbh Together You And I! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 4 hours ago, Miss Dolly said: I agree with the last condition but the other two is extremely undemocratic tbh Funny you say that because the second one is the only I have an issue with in principle. Democracy prevails and if they want another referendum, another referendum should be held. Like with anything. I support the threshold turnouts (see my edit) but these should have been in place before the Uk started doing referenda more frequently. Adding this condition now is hypocritical Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Day 5,766 Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, bionic said: Funny you say that because the second one is the only I have an issue with in principle. Democracy prevails and if they want another referendum, another referendum should be held. Like with anything. I support the threshold turnouts (see my edit) but these should have been in place before the Uk started doing referenda more frequently. Adding this condition now is hypocritical For these thresholds to take place they should be an agreement for a change to take place in case the “no” place is to take place. Like for example, in 2014 the “devo max” promise should of been legally binding, same with the EU membership. They should be a condition that a referendum, on the same issue (within reason) every so often. Like for example, the Good Friday Agreement says that a referendum on Irish Unity should take place every 7 years after the first one. Together You And I! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Miss Dolly said: For these thresholds to take place they should be an argument for a change to take place in case the “no” place is to take place. Like for example, in 2014 the “devo max” promise should of been legally binding, same with the EU membership. That makes it a lot more complicated and I don't think there'a fair way to do that. For some (however many or few), the status quo would be their desired result. Some want devo max. Some want independence. If a ballot was independence v devo max then status quo is rejected for voters who prefer that. Independence v status quo, you risk alienating those who support devolution but not independence or status quo. If you have ALL of them on, it could be harder to win a majority. Then what? You revert to status quo? Follow the largest single group but reject opinions of (potentially) the majority of voters across other groups? Run off elections are no better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Day 5,766 Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 Just now, bionic said: That makes it a lot more complicated and I don't think there'a fair way to do that. For some (however many or few), the status quo would be their desired result. Some want devo max. Some want independence. If a ballot was independence v devo max then status quo is rejected for voters who prefer that. Independence v status quo, you risk alienating those who support devolution but not independence or status quo. If you have ALL of them on, it could be harder to win a majority. Then what? You revert to status quo? Follow the largest single group but reject opinions of (potentially) the majority of voters across other groups? Run off elections are no better What I mean, they should be a published manifesto before a referendum with promises that should be adhered too (collaboration from all parties on the particular side) and if the desired side is won the manifesto is therefore legally binding. Referendums should all have two options, if they were anymore than 2 it could mean that more people vote against the winning side than for it. Together You And I! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Just now, Miss Dolly said: What I mean, they should be a published manifesto before a referendum with promises that should be adhered too (collaboration from all parties on the particular side) and if the desired side is won the manifesto is therefore legally binding. Referendums should all have two options, if they were anymore than 2 it could mean that more people vote against the winning side than for it. Oh yeah if both make their plans absolutely clear then I support that. Sadly I don't think constitutionally/legally the UK Parliament can bind its future self so you're relying on integrity, and with Boris at the helm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Day 5,766 Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 minute ago, bionic said: Oh yeah if both make their plans absolutely clear then I support that. Sadly I don't think constitutionally/legally the UK Parliament can bind its future self so you're relying on integrity, and with Boris at the helm... Essentially, I’m riding my whole life on this upcoming referendum. Scotland is screwed if we vote to remain for a second time. The boyfriend and I are off to Canada if it happens and never coming back Together You And I! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Miss Dolly said: Essentially, I’m riding my whole life on this upcoming referendum. Scotland is screwed if we vote to remain for a second time. The boyfriend and I are off to Canada if it happens and never coming back As you know am not from UK so have no horse in this race. I think Scotland can be a powerful partner within the UK, but the Tories need to go. I can't even say they're the pro-England party because we've seen that they're happy to throw parts of England under the bus when it suits them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Day 5,766 Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, bionic said: As you know am not from UK so have no horse in this race. I think Scotland can be a powerful partner within the UK, but the Tories need to go. I can't even say they're the pro-England party because we've seen that they're happy to throw parts of England under the bus when it suits them It was settled will with me after 2014 as long as the promises were kept. The Smith Commission heavily under performed then the EU referendum happened and as time went on the appetite for Indyref2 kept me going. We could of been great within the UK as long as we got federalism which never transpired and so bitter over it. Tbh, if it was either federalism or Independence it would of been the former for me but that was never on the ballot. Together You And I! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Miss Dolly said: It was settled will with me after 2014 as long as the promises were kept. The Smith Commission heavily under performed then the EU referendum happened and as time went on the appetite for Indyref2 kept me going. We could of been great within the UK as long as we got federalism which never transpired and so bitter over it. I love federalism just as much as I hate it Like any constitutional set-up there are lots of good bits, lots of weaknesses. But thats for another thread Spoiler in a new politics section? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Day 5,766 Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, bionic said: I love federalism just as much as I hate it Like any constitutional set-up there are lots of good bits, lots of weaknesses. But thats for another thread Hide contents in a new politics section? Still never heard anything about the new section. @Dominic Together You And I! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji 20,113 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 If Scotland wants to leave, they should let the rest of the Kingdom vote because you will most certainly get the result you want Scotland would be pretty screwed jumping ship and hoping the EU allows them to join without meeting its requirements... that’s if there’s an EU still there once it comes to that because I can see France leaving soon. Remember Spain will veto Scotland joining as it will give Catalonia a leg to stand on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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