On Fans, Gaga, and Mistakes

[LilyLark 10,095]

So this is based on a locked thread below....and apologies for the rant.

I genuinely do not understand why fans constantly drag up or bring more attention to Gaga's past errors. I'm not talking about minor or even medium level f*ckups, but the more serious ones. It's one thing on here—it's much worse to do on twitter where it can go viral. Is there a reason fans do this? I also mostly stay off stan twitter, but as far as I'm aware no other stan group assumes the worst of someone they are a fan of and/or amplifies the bad sh*t (and I'm not talking about calmly correcting something outrageous when I say amplify).

Gaga's made mistakes. She's admitted to making mistakes and educating herself. Frankly, so have all the big pop girls from Rihanna to Gaga to Miley to even the icons like Madonna & Cher...the sort of things that could get a star "cancelled" today. Even Beyonce, although her "uh oh" moment doesn't get as much traction as she's beloved for the most part outside of right wing circles and the Hive is smart enough not to amplify it.

I've been a fan of Gag's since the beginning, and there are only two major f*ck ups that I'm aware of (R Kelly/Terry (tho the worst of Terry wasn't really out there when Gag worked with him), and the pic where she's likely coked out of her head and posing with the (likely) racist fans at the German fetish club). I'm aware there's a small chance those fans weren't doing it, but I suspect they took advantage of a scat theme to try and be "shocking" (e.g. racist). And yet I see fans conflating the latter with arguable cases of cultural appropriation (mind you, half the white girls wore dreads back in 2010) to claim Gaga has a problematic history or believing a batsh*t, clearly fake tumblr story about the German fetish club that makes a bad situation seem much worse.

That's pretty much her (public) history. There's no need to conflate some incidents with the few big f*ck ups, post stuff out of context, or exaggerate already problematic situations to make them seem much worse. There's no reason to believe flat out lies or stories that mix some lies along with the truth. And I do get if you are 17 or 18 you might not fully understand it (or even 20), but the public perception on things like white girls wearing dreads has changed dramatically from when she did it. With the exception of a somewhat clueless tweet, she hasn't really done anything problematic since 2013-ish...8 freaking years. Basically, if y'all keep doing this sh*t why are you a fan of Gaga's in the first place? I'd understand listening to her music, but not coming on her sites or following her if your prone to the antics mentioned above.

 

[Delulu Rogers 7,235]

I literally don’t see much of gaga’s past being brought up like this post makes it seem. Usually stuff that gets brought up doesn’t get much attention or they are purposely exaggerated. Gaga has actually escaped a lot of potentiel cancellation because if she debuted in today’s world she wouldn’t have gotten past the meat dress. And the r Kelly scandale could have easily ended her whole career but she managed to escape it

[GucciGa 3,729]

They do it for one reason and one reason only: drama. That last thread's OP even said he was "bored", so why not make a gross unnecessary thread to stir some up. 

Im so sick of celebrities being harassed into apologising for past behaviour. Our past is our past.  Unless it's criminal, leave it where it bloody belongs. None of the things mentioned in that thread came from any badness within her. She trusted people who turned out to be fckn creeps. Nobody knew the extent of their fked upness, no matter how ppl wanna rewrite history thru 2021 lens. . Y'all were playing the crap out of DWUW back then too. 

I bet the people who drag that crap up are not perfectly pristine in their lives either. 

[LilyLark 10,095]

3 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

I literally don’t see much of gaga’s past being brought up like this post makes it seem. Usually stuff that gets brought up doesn’t get much attention or they are purposely exaggerated. Gaga has actually escaped a lot of potentiel cancellation because if she debuted in today’s world she wouldn’t have gotten past the meat dress. And the r Kelly scandale could have easily ended her whole career but she managed to escape it

Got it, but the point is I often see fans dragging it up, which is what surprises me, more than random people or haters trying to "cancel" Gaga. And it's not just this....it's sh*t like fans basically accusing her of sexually harassing Brian in Vegas on twitter (and not just a few fans, but a lot of them)...despite the fact his wife literally rubbed her bare t*ts all over Gaga's face on stage so clearly there was no prob. It's absolutely bizarre behavior....like I said, I mostly stay off stan twitter nowadays, but I am not aware of any other fan group that acts that way.

Yeah, I do agree that if Gaga (or Rihanna or any of the girls I mentioned, with the exception of Bey) had debuted in 2015 they would have faced a lot more "cancellation" type drama. In a weird way, the R. Kelly thing sort of "helped" her as all of the worst sh*t was dragged up on twitter, sometimes by verified accounts, and she still survived it without any sites like Pajiba deciding to do a big post on her "history" (as they've done with some celebs).

[IllusionLover 6,658]

Can I know what was the issue they were bringing up??

[GucciGa 3,729]

6 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

I literally don’t see much of gaga’s past being brought up like this post makes it seem. Usually stuff that gets brought up doesn’t get much attention or they are purposely exaggerated. Gaga has actually escaped a lot of potentiel cancellation because if she debuted in today’s world she wouldn’t have gotten past the meat dress. And the r Kelly scandale could have easily ended her whole career but she managed to escape it

This is a moot point. You can't judge somebody's past through 2021 standards. You just can't. It's pointless. You don't know if she'd even do half the things she's done. what was "shocking" back then wouldn't cause people to blink twice today. And people are also more aware of how offended people get by certain hairstyles etc. 

 

The R Kelly thing was never going to end her career. Most people knew she wasn't purposely collaborating with an abuser. We don't know what Gaga even knew of what was known at that time. We don't know how engaged she was with gossip culture, and that gossip really wasn't mainstream. To her R Kelly was a nice guy. Being a very famous person who experienced a lot of negative commentary/tabloid coverage based on things that were untrue, she might have felt sorry for him and felt that what was being said about the nice guy in front of her couldn't be true. Things are rarely black and white. She's never really spoken about all of that, and it's probably bc she knows any explanation she has will be attacked. But if anyone seriously thinks she knew the truth of R Kelly was doing and still chose to collab then they're dumb af. 

[LilyLark 10,095]

16 minutes ago, GucciGa said:

They do it for one reason and one reason only: drama. That last thread's OP even said he was "bored", so why not make a gross unnecessary thread to stir some up. 

Im so sick of celebrities being harassed into apologising for past behaviour. Our past is our past.  Unless it's criminal, leave it where it bloody belongs. None of the things mentioned in that thread came from any badness within her. She trusted people who turned out to be fckn creeps. Nobody knew the extent of their fked upness, no matter how ppl wanna rewrite history thru 2021 lens. . Y'all were playing the crap out of DWUW back then too. 

I bet the people who drag that crap up are not perfectly pristine in their lives either. 

I mean, I do think the apology for R Kelly was warranted but I also think she became the scapgoat because a lot of huge stars worked with him and they got 1/100th of the drama. I also think fans tend to avoid the fact that a) she clearly wasn't exactly stable at the time, which she had even admitted and b) the music industry is rife with predators & they all deal with them to a certain extent. Also, again, the times have changed....few people want to admit this BUT a lot of the media coverage back then on R Kelly was spun as overzealous, mostly white cops/criminal justice system going after a successful Black man who was only guilty of being sleazy...especially as Aalyiah had denied the marriage when she was underage and one of the girls recanted. Hell, I remember there were pics of him sitting front row with major celebs & more.

But yeah, the culture of public shaming—unless it's something truly heinous like Camilla Cabello's racist past—is kind of overboard. And I feel like people need to either recognize a star apologized or not (and if they think the apology is insufficient, dislike the star and don't follow them and move on), instead of constantly dragging it up over and over again (Camila).

 

[GucciGa 3,729]

1 minute ago, LilyLark said:

I mean, I do think the apology for R Kelly was warranted but I also think she became the scapgoat because a lot of huge stars worked with him and they got 1/100th of the drama. I also think fans tend to avoid the fact that a) she clearly wasn't exactly stable at the time, which she had even admitted and b) the music industry is rife with predators & they all deal with them to a certain extent.

But yeah, the culture of public shaming—unless it's something truly heinous like Camilla Cabello's racist past—is kind of overboard. And I feel like people need to either recognize a star apologized or not (and if they think the apology is insufficient, dislike the star and don't follow them and move on), instead of constantly dragging it up over and over again (Camila).

 

Well that's exactly it, she became the scapegoat. How many black artists worked with R Kelly over the years? Were they dragged? Jimmy iovine had R Kelly play at his wife's birthday party in like 2016 or something. A ton of major celebs were there dancing away to him. Yet Gaga is the one who everyone went after. If she had to apologise then why not everyone else? 

[LilyLark 10,095]

10 minutes ago, IllusionLover said:

Can I know what was the issue they were bringing up??

Probably not lol. A youtube video about Gaga's "problematic" past.

[LilyLark 10,095]

2 minutes ago, GucciGa said:

Well that's exactly it, she became the scapegoat. How many black artists worked with R Kelly over the years? Were they dragged? Jimmy iovine had R Kelly play at his wife's birthday party in like 2016 or something. A ton of major celebs were there dancing away to him. Yet Gaga is the one who everyone went after. If she had to apologise then why not everyone else? 

Nicki Minaj got dragged pretty badly, while Bieber & Kendrick got a pass. I actually think there was a gendered angle in that the media and a lot of the GP focused on the polarizing women who collaborated with him.

 

[GucciGa 3,729]

9 minutes ago, LilyLark said:

I mean, I do think the apology for R Kelly was warranted but I also think she became the scapgoat because a lot of huge stars worked with him and they got 1/100th of the drama. I also think fans tend to avoid the fact that a) she clearly wasn't exactly stable at the time, which she had even admitted and b) the music industry is rife with predators & they all deal with them to a certain extent.

But yeah, the culture of public shaming—unless it's something truly heinous like Camilla Cabello's racist past—is kind of overboard. And I feel like people need to either recognize a star apologized or not (and if they think the apology is insufficient, dislike the star and don't follow them and move on), instead of constantly dragging it up over and over again (Camila).

 

 

This is from TMZ. The party was in late 2013.

"

Jimmy Iovine threw the dopest party ever at his house in L.A. last night -- and here's the thing ... Oprah wasn't the big star there.

A star struck Oprah gushed that she got to meet Mick Jagger for the first time. But it doesn't end there -- other guests included Diddy, Kanye West, Kim Kardashian, Brian Grazer, Dr. Dre and a bunch more.

By the way -- Jimmy wasn't playing a mix tape for background ... R. Kelly gave an impromptu performance ... and we believe Diddy did too.

The way it looks to us -- this was a combo party during Emmy weekend, but also a bash to celebrate the birthday of Liberty Ross .. who he's rumored to be banging."

 

Guess who else was there... Gayle King. Ha! 

[js4754394o9823 6,882]

We are on Gaga's forum without any bigger content in months

Nothing is happening so everyone is talking about the past

Every fandom does that

[GucciGa 3,729]

2 minutes ago, LilyLark said:

Nicki Minaj got dragged pretty badly, while Bieber & Kendrick got a pass. I actually think there was a gendered angle in that the media and a lot of the GP focused on the polarizing women who collaborated with him.

 

Was a part of it driven by other artists stans too? Out of jealousy of her huge success with ASIB? Wouldn't be surprised. But yeah I agree, it was definitely bc they were women. 

[LilyLark 10,095]

1 minute ago, GucciGa said:

Was a part of it driven by other artists stans too? Out of jealousy of her huge success with ASIB? Wouldn't be surprised. But yeah I agree, it was definitely bc they were women. 

I definitely think some of it was driven by the nutty anti-stan/hater behavior on twitter, especially as ASIB was smashing at the time. But I think a huge chunk of why Gaga (and Nicki) were scapegoated over the men was just old fashioned sexism....

I mean, twitter in general has a racism and sexism problem....as does stan culture & even the media to a certain extent. And while a lot of hardcore music stans are women, women can still have internalized misogyny just like Black people (Candance Owens, for example) can have internalized racism, etc.

[G U C C I 5,465]

1 hour ago, LilyLark said:

Probably not lol. A youtube video about Gaga's "problematic" past.

I stumbled across that video and made the mistake of wasting my time watching it. The person who made it clearly values her own self righteousness over anything else and simply wanted attention and praise for being woke. When in reality they took moments in time from the career of a woman who used to purposely and publicly push all boundaries in the name of performance art, and then attempted to exaggerate it into a possible scandal for attention for themselves. People like that are literally scum. Don’t trip over it. Gaga is fine.