Buttigieg open to taxing drivers by the mile

[StarstruckIllusion 53,564]

2 minutes ago, bionic said:

I trust that this will get parked once the experts get their hands on it, but its an example of what the political class really think and believe. A saying the quiet bit out loud moment

Im just upset that clip has 4M views  he really set himself up chile help

I’m sad bc I remember him saying he wants to bring hyper speed trains across the US and thats such a smart idea tbh. He’s 1-1 rn for me 

5 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

He’s actually experienced in transportation though? 
 

I used to live in South Bend, IN during and after the time Pete was mayor and he passed massive infrastructure projects to revolutionize public transportation for our medium-sized industrial midwest city.... exactly the kind of city and voters people are bashing Pete for not understanding somehow 

Someone in here calling him an urban elite is just hilarious 

oh interesting. maybe him mentioning hyper speed trains shouldn’t have surprised me then 

[HuffsAhoy 7,433]

Just now, PartySick said:

It's two pages in, can y'all be nice please?

Hard to be nice to certain Mary Jane's when they attack your ethos with spelling errors  But I'll try

[FATCAT 60,888]

1 minute ago, PartySick said:

How much is that anyway? And what does the gas tax revenue go towards? If it's a direct replacement and the taxes already go towards infrastructure then what would be the point of making an unpopular move like this? I'm just trying to understand what we'd gain from this tbh.

The most interesting threads always get made when I'm at work and can't dive into stuff

It’s more than $1 of every gallon of gas. It’s why gas prices hovered around $1.50-1.70 when gas was basically free for those few months. Like 80% of that is the tax that doesn’t bend with the market.

the tax goes to infrastructure, it’d basically be a 1:1 swap, but taxing by mileage allows us to do something important: Tax big rigs that tear up the roads much more than the average sedan, more than they currently scoot by on. It’s why our roads are falling apart all over, Amazon, UPS, and every other major shopping company basically uses the roads for free.

[MJHolland 12,725]

Idk how a Democrat proposing we actually tax ppl fairly, and move away from the gasoline tax that the urban rich avoid with electric vehicle, is somehow this out of touch political elite idea....

Like... all the inequities that you guys have mentioned are present with our current gasoline tax system??

And yeah, voters won’t be thrilled about it, but not voters like taxes. We can’t sustain a society in which only the rich pay taxes tho like come on 

[StarstruckIllusion 53,564]

Prayer circle for everyone to forget this clip in a week 

[Emvee 8,826]

Add that to the tally of stupid **** Buttigieg has said. 

[Luc 4,776]

And add an extra high rate for travelling during peak times. The tax could be made income-/wealth-/area-/alternatives-dependent, such that a rich guy in Manhattan pays maybe $0.40 per mile during peak times while a rural worker maybe $0.01 per mile. The money raised can be redistributed to the people and invested in further decarbonizing the economy.

People who think fighting climate change is only going to be popular policies are naive. Fighting climate change is difficult and requires making personal offers. "The top 10 companies cause x% of all emissions!" and populist phrases like that - yes because they provide the gas you use for your car. There's no way to make an oil company "emit" less than by inducing less demand for them.

Poor people should be compensated for the losses they face, but yes people who travel 2+ hours per day will slowly need to move to a place where they cause less pollution. And *yes* fighting climate change probably means increasing urban-rural inequalities because urban people live more carbon-efficient lives. *yes* fighting climate change means jobs will be lost and people will need to go back to college to ready themselves for the new economy. But the alternative (climate change) is much, much worse.

[PartySick 172,483]

5 minutes ago, FATCAT said:

It’s more than $1 of every gallon of gas. It’s why gas prices hovered around $1.50-1.70 when gas was basically free for those few months. Like 80% of that is the tax that doesn’t bend with the market.

the tax goes to infrastructure, it’d basically be a 1:1 swap, but taxing by mileage allows us to do something important: Tax big rigs that tear up the roads much more than the average sedan, more than they currently scoot by on. It’s why our roads are falling apart all over, Amazon, UPS, and every other major shopping company basically uses the roads for free.

Cool, I get his rationale then. And thanks @bionic too

He'll definitely need a better selling line than "tax by the mile" though

1 minute ago, Luc said:

People who think fighting climate change is only going to be popular policies are naive.

Yeah, but you don't want to sink the entire initiative with poor PR either. He has to make it appealing at face value or he risks losing people all together.

9 minutes ago, HuffsAhoy said:

Hard to be nice to certain Mary Jane's when they attack your ethos with spelling errors  But I'll try

You could just put each other on ignore

[HuffsAhoy 7,433]

3 minutes ago, Luc said:

And *yes* fighting climate change probably means increasing urban-rural inequalities because urban people live more carbon-efficient lives. *yes* fighting climate change means jobs will be lost and people will need to go back to college to ready themselves for the new economy. But the alternative (climate change) is much, much worse.

Sorry you're too poor to live in a city, but it's okay, just go back to college and purge yourself into thousands of dollars of more debt. But its okay because you NEED to accept your life will suck and you'll never be seen as an equal citizen to the city elites. But its okay because we are saving the earth, though it means you poor folks will be sacrificed first in the climate crisis.  Yes, it sucks 2 b a poor rural person, but you should have  chosen to runaway from your rural area and live in a city. Lol.

[HuffsAhoy 7,433]

3 minutes ago, PartySick said:

You could just put each other on ignore

I've thought about it but to me that would be similar to Faux News getting bent out of shape over differing opinions  I love a good debate but I swear sometimes certain people here grate my nerves 

[Luc 4,776]

16 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Cool, I get his rationale then. And thanks @bionic too

He'll definitely need a better selling line than "tax by the mile" though

Yeah, but you don't want to sink the entire initiative with poor PR either. He has to make it appealing at face value or he risks losing people all together.

You could just put each other on ignore

The best selling point is that it allows electric vehicles to be taxed. That's the way right-wing parties got convinced here, it's been a very controversial topic for decades now.  But it's the most efficient type of tax because it makes drivers internalize the costs they impose on society by driving. If such a tax means you are induced to work 100 miles closer and earn $100 less before-tax but earn the same after-tax, than actually your driving was already causing $100 a month in environmental damage and infrastructure damages that other people and future generations paid for. 

A good starting point is to impose it on truck drivers first, to induce them to drive outside of peak times and choose more efficient routes. Again, the tax income could be redistributed, for instance by subsidizing electric trucks or by distributing the total tax income equally over all truck drivers per hour worked, such that the more carbon-efficient truck drivers actually get higher purchasing power.

12 minutes ago, HuffsAhoy said:

Sorry you're too poor to live in a city, but it's okay, just go back to college and purge yourself into thousands of dollars of more debt. But its okay because you NEED to accept your life will suck and you'll never be seen as an equal citizen to the city elites. But its okay because we are saving the earth, though it means you poor folks will be sacrificed first in the climate crisis.  Yes, it sucks 2 b a poor rural person, but you should have  chosen to runaway from your rural area and live in a city. Lol.

Like I said, fighting climate change means taking unpopular measures. We are all living beyond our means, the earth simply cannot take the burden that the average American places on it. Everyone has to make sacrifices, the people who pollute a lot bigger sacrifices than others. I stopped eating meat almost entirely, when I travel within the continent (Europe) I never take the plane even if it means sitting in a bus for 48 hours, I paid thousands for better isolation, non-gas-powered warm water and in winter I use a blanket instead of turning up the heating. The US is not just politically, but also culturally much behind in the fight against climate change. TINA: and that's why climate change denialism is such a big thing. Republicans know that if they accept climate change, there is no other way to fight it than with deeply unpopular policies. As such, they will prefer not to accept the truth. 

Of course a politician will be able to state what I say in a much more empathetic way, but how I think right now is how the average American will think about it ten years from now. It's up to the Democratic party and liberal media to push this transition in thinking. And saying Biden only needs the rural voters to win isn't true, Biden also needs the people who may get frustrated with him if his policies don't go far enough and who vote Green instead. That's how the left in countries like Germany got eaten up by greens.

[HuffsAhoy 7,433]

8 minutes ago, Luc said:

Everyone has to make sacrifices

You make me utterly SICK with this idiotic notion. Yes, let's make the poor suffer more to save the planet. Honestly, screw you and every other elite leftist whose agenda is to thrown millions further and further into poverty with the guise of saving the planet. You are all repulsive humans. Y'all are no different than alt-righters. 

[HuffsAhoy 7,433]

We have racists and anti-poor members of this site. I genuinely cannot believe such people exist on a LADY GAGA forum. She would be horrified to hear that so many of her fans support such archaic measure to tax to death the poor rural working class. I hope the left loses big next year. They all deserve it for supporting such ridiculous measures to further destroy the working class of America. Get ready for years of alt-right leadership unless we have a radical purging of the liberal parties. 

[MJHolland 12,725]

25 minutes ago, HuffsAhoy said:

I've thought about it but to me that would be similar to Faux News getting bent out of shape over differing opinions  I love a good debate but I swear sometimes certain people here grate my nerves 

You’re literally such a jerk to everybody tho. Luc wrote a very comprehensive and nuanced take on the policy and how to make it equitable and not hurt rural people disproportionately and you’re literally mocking them. 

You’re not trying to debate anyone, you’re legit just here to be mean and mock people. Because you’re a jerk. How many times do you need to be publicly called out by multiple people in every thread. I can be abrasive with my opinions but god damn you need to chill the absolute f*ck out. 

6 minutes ago, HuffsAhoy said:

We have racists and anti-poor members of this site. I genuinely cannot believe such people exist on a LADY GAGA forum. She would be horrified to hear that so many of her fans support such archaic measure to tax to death the poor rural working class. I hope the left loses big next year. They all deserve it for supporting such ridiculous measures to further destroy the working class of America. Get ready for years of alt-right leadership unless we have a radical purging of the liberal parties. 

What a mess wtf is this

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

1 hour ago, Morphine Prince said:

Democrats are gonna lose big in 2022 thanks to clips like this  

Why? Do you think roads are free? You already get charged about $ .20 per gallon for infrastructure and it's not working. I think he's dumb for saying ideas out loud with no plans but let's not pretend we are not being taxed for infrastructure.  

Beside I thought libs wanted higher taxes to pay for healthcare, education why would you want better roads too? 

I'm confused. Are you now a moderate republican?